The fee
Not sure how I feel about a proposed student fee, most of which will benefit the athletic department, because I’m not a UH student (although I’m on campus every weekday).
I wouldn’t want to pay a fee if I didn’t attend sports events. Then again, I wouldn’t want to pay the activity fee if I didn’t attend Campus Center events or the bus-pass fee if I didn’t use the bus or a tuition hike if I didn’t want to compensate the higher-salaried professors of classes I wouldn’t take. I wouldn’t want to pay for a student newspaper I didn’t read, although without Ka Leo, where I worked for four years, I wouldn’t have received the training — and contacts — I needed to land the job I have today.
Maybe it’s the whole concept. The athletic department benefits more from the student fee than other entertainment entities in the way that pre-med majors benefit more from a flat-tuition rate than communication majors. Should UH go to an ala-carte system? Or why not just incorporate all of the fees — Campus Center, athletics, Kennedy Theater, intramurals, Ka Leo, bus passes — into the tuition, then allow the chancellor to decide how the money should be distributed.
Or why not create a new distribution system? Let the athletic department take over the RainBowTique stores. The way it is now, only a small portion of the proceeds go to athletics. Yet, last I checked, sports figures made up the majority of the guest appearances/signings at the stores.
Thoughts?
* * * * *
The problem with the student fee is it looks like a bail-out plan. It’s all about marketing. What UH needs to show is:
• if the fee is approved, what do the students get? In football, for instance, students not only have to pay just a few bucks for a ticket, but they get free bus transportation the stadium and back. Top that. Maybe expand their usage hours in the weight room? More open gym nights at Gym I or Klum Gym?
• None of the student-fee money will go toward salaries. If a new coach gets $10,000 more than the previous coach, $10,000 gets slashed from somewhere in the budget.
• Students get the corporate-sponsor treatment. I’m pretty sure a $2 million annual payment makes the students, collectively, the athletic department’s largest donor. So set aside a certain number of parking stalls, really good tickets and banquet invitations. ASUH can figure out how to distribute the freebies.
* * * * *
Riley Wallace said that Bob Nash, who accepted a coaching job in Japan, is in Las Vegas scouting the European players competing in the pro summer league.
* * * * *
Interesting to see former UH guard Dominic Waters on the Utah Jazz’ Summer League roster. Go to the link, and this pops up:
yah
im never 1st
I would love to see the Rainbowtique profits go to the AD – if it is profitable.
Wish the athletic fee would lead to more school spirit and support tho!
All universities charge fees. I worked at a university, so I don’t oppose them. It’s the total cost to the student that needs to be looked at. NAU started charging a $150 IT fee; looks high, but it’s a lot of service that’s provided.
As a student here, I can tell you the majority of students will oppose the Athletic Fee. With only 15% of undergrads living on campus, we are a commuter campus. The school spirit kinda sucks lol…
But you gotta do what you gotta do.
The Rainbowtique Stores should be under the AD – makes sense.
I can see both sides of the fee debate and can sympathize with each side, but in the end, I agree with Slugger that it’s the total cost to the student that needs to be looked at.
A lot of arguments can be made for/against this fee (or any fee, for that matter), but I won’t rehash them here.
Yes to an activity fee. And, as pointed out above, most, if not all, schools, charge an “activity fee” under one name or another.
You’re first now, rylen.
If the Rainbowtique stores sell mainly sporting goods, why shouldn’t Athletics get a larger % of the profits? I think they should. I don’t think the Athletics dept. should take over the operation. There’s a lot of work in the background that is involved. Athletics should focus on athletics. I think the university should portion out more of the Rainbowtique profits to Athletics which would reduce its running at a deficit.
Good morning, gangeez!
do it.
Good Morning Everybody! Hope everyone has a blessed Sunday!
I don’t know how to transfer my late post on yesterday’s blog and will respond later, but I am very, very disappointed in Dave Reardon’s article in today’s newspaper. Would like your comments IF UH can no longer afford athletics. What would the ripple effects be? I know some the the SA writers will lose their jobs, but what other effects could occur. Decline in addmision?
I will post more after the World Cup finals, but how long can the University of Hawaii continue to operate the athletic department with an annual $2 million deficit?
I’ve always felt the athletic department should out-source some of the work.
For instance, the department gets something like $500,000 to maintain the Lower Campus. But most of the money goes to the salaries of the the custodians/groundskeepers. Of course, there are overdrafts, for things for materials. Is there a way to hire a cleaning crew? OK, I know about the union restrictions. But, in turn, couldn’t the current custodians form their own company? They probably could make more money because they could take on more jobs, at UH and around town.
Let the students vote on this . . . pay the $50 fee, OR pay their UNSUBSIDIZED tuition and fees. If they want an education let them pay the full fee.
I am sure d1 is not the only one who is tired of paying for unused or unwanted services.
Willie Horton was asked why he robbed banks. He said that’s where the money is.
If I’m running the RainBowTique, I’m closing stores at Ward Centre and Fort Street Mall, and opening stores in Ala Moana Center, Waikiki and the airport.
And, a great Sunday it is going to be!!!
Headed to Punchbowl for a quick visit.
Students at UH Manoa are going to have to learn sometime that the REAL WORLD is not a democracy.
Fact is fact, I didn’t make these rules and I know which battles to fight.
The first store you come to when you arrive in Boise is the B$-You store in the airport concourse.
wafan:
People do not like tax hikes, but what they hate even more is wasteful spending with the increased revenue.
I think students would feel better if they were assured the money wasn’t used to pay off the debt.
People have tried to explain this to me, but it seems the accumulated deficit is with UH, not with, say, HECO or United Airlines. The athletic department’s debt has been paid — by Upper Campus. Now the AD has to pay back Upper Campus. I’m sure people still don’t understand why Upper Campus just can’t forgive the debt. This goes back to an Upper Campus official telling me the athletic department doesn’t have a deficit, it’s under-funded. The administration could easily give the athletic department more money, especially since the school’s federal funding depends largely on being in compliance with Title IX.
“do you like the idea of an athletic fee?”
Surprise answer!: No!
“do you like the idea of paying more taxes?”
What do you think the answer would be?
Manoa,
Those quotes came from Facebook. Mouse Davis/Run and Shoot offense page…..
Stephen,
I think you are giving the students, at least those that make up ASUH, too much credit.
UH can do everything in the world to tell assure them that the money won’t be “wasted” and STILL they will not be swayed to feel better.
I know my generation. A lot of people in their early 20’s don’t want to hear about facts when it comes to having to pay stuff out of their pocket unless it’s $5.00 for a red plastic cup at the K-E-O house.
Papajoe2 – These issues are being discussed AND addressed by concerned individuals and businesses as well as alumni. I am not saying that the Grand Solution has been selected, but people here in Hawai`i and elsewhere ARE stepping forward to help.
RE student fees: I am willing to pay taxes for services & programs at every level of government if they benefit others even if I don’t use them and do not expect to because I believe that they will make my community, my county, my state, and my country a better place in which to live, work & play for everyone – not just for me.
Student fees fall into the same category. Frankly, today’s students receive lots of benefits paid for by taxpayers over the past one hundred-plus years.
Manoa,
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Mouse-that-Roars-The-Story-of-Mouse-Davis-and-the-Run-n-Shoot-Offense/110781075622082
Probably 70%-90% of my taxes go to stuff I don’t care for or approve of, but hey, I gotta pay it as a functioning, productive member of society. Welcome to the real world. I would suggest you guys make it known to the Board of Regents exactly what you want access to with this fee… free admission to all on-campus events, $5 max for entrance to Aloha Stadium, etc.
The way we’ve done business is largely ineffective, as evidenced by the struggles we now face, exposed by this sour economy. This is just one more topic thrown into the pot which requires our collective creativity, experience, passion, and resolve to overcome.
ST is right. Outsourcing could be the answer to many things. Unfortunately, with so much tied to unions, we’ll face ridiculous litigation just to effect positive change. Too bad, ’cause something’s gotta be done!
Good Morning Gangeez!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Fees find foes in some,
but who gets the money when its said and done?
(Think Jack in the Beanstalk and you’ll understand.)
***
And its not just the activity fee. Consider:
>UH refused first dibs on the marketing rights to our Logo.
>UH gives away most of the profit from the RainBowTique.
>UH is the only school in the WAC without a student athletic fee.
>UH is still charged a maintence fee for its games at Aloha Stadium.
>UH is the only school in the WAC without revenue sharing from it’s football game venue, Aloha Stadium. (Concessions, parking, signage revenue.)
>Aloha Stadium regularly generates a surplus of between $1 to 2.5 million a year from its combined revenue sources. UH football generates the lion’s share of that surplus. How much of that surplus is given to UH? Nothing.
Yes, our teams need to win if we want to hang with the big boys, but let’s face it, the above factors place our Warriors at a huge disadvantage even before a down is played.
Fix those problems. And give the activity fees to athletics.
Nuff said.
Not sure about your kids, but in our house, we paid for the tuitions. So maybe the person who pays for the tuition — and student fee — should get the benefits of the student fee.
Someone said it earlier, the real “crime” on campus is textbooks…
…and how many of those hardly ever get used by the students! 😈
Eh Sluggah –
I wen foget fo’ congrajumate you fo winning the RainBowTique gift certificate!
Congrajumacations!!!
I’ve been reading your blogs and all the opinions expressed by everyone.
Wonder what would happen if we shouldn’t just get rid of all student fees.
Raise the UH tuition by a couple of hundred bucks. Have the Administration allocate the moneys out with full support from the Legislature.
The Administration/Regents/Legislature must surely realize that requiring every UH program to be self-supporting is a crock.
The major athletic programs cannot be relied on to fully take care of the other programs. The side-effects of the major programs do generate dollars that we cannot realize – publicity, some tourist dollars etc.
If the Administration/Regents expect self-sufficency, then they better think seriously about raising tuition to cover ALL costs, not just the athletic department.
One can dream, can’t one?
Nuff said.
#33… yeah, why hasn’t that Aloha Stadium stuff been resolved yet? Rip off!!!
#35… I remember paying $50 for a used book, instead of paying $200 that the professor was charging in her class. Good thing for off-campus (used) book stores!
Re: Student activity fee.
What do you get in return? Free admission to all athletic events? What else? Free bus shuttle?
#39 MWarrior,
If you paid $50 for a used book, think how little the student got when she sold her book to the store.
Daughter was paid $5 for a $200 textbook last semesster. Reason is that science books go out of date so quickly.
DPK,
Those factors place ALL Warriors and Rainbow Wahine student athletes at a disadvantage.
#41… gigi… Yeah, I actually thought that after I picked up the book. I decided then that I’d try to make friends with people in the exact same class that I’d be in next semester, and offer to buy their books from them if I needed it. It didn’t always work out. These professors know the game and seemed to like changing books from one semester to the next. I don’t know if it was for variety’s sake, or to keep plagiarism down, or what.
I assumed that the Rainbowtique was under the AD – was surprised it isn’t. Doesn’t it basically sell athletic inspired material? Time to place it under the AD, with some proceedes to the ‘upper campus’ for administrative functions.
The athletic $50 fee is small. Back in the early 60’s (’61 – ’66) I paid $50.00 per semester. Now almost 50 years later, the proposed fee is only $50.oo Sounds like a bargain to me.
I always believed in the buy-low theory. Because the fee will be imposed, ASUH should get UH to lock into the $50-per-semester fee for, say, 10 years. Because, you know, in five years that $50 fee will be $100 per semester. Think of it as those Harley $10-a-day commercials. The athletic fee comes out to 59.5 cents per day.
RE: Kazz # 18-
That’s right. We live in a Consitutional Republic.
The Democracy cry is only a utopian scapegoat for wanting what feels right.
Hope Zach and Tu’u get their grades in check, no can waste that kine talent. I know it’s the individuals fault by not getting things done in the classroom, but where are the parents, coaches, and counselours to help these young kids get where they need to go. Pretty soon Arizona Western College is going to be mini UH with all these former UH recruits and local boys playing football here. Just hope these guys make it back to the Warrior Green although the one from down under seems to be leaning towards a Pac-10 school that goes quack quack to team up with somebody’s bro, from what I’ve heard round these parts…
The student fee is a backa$$wards decision.
This is nothing surprising coming from the decision makers at this university. The paradise tax trumps again.
DPK and others:
The reason why UH pays a maintenance fee at Aloha Stadium is that it does NOT pay any rent for the facility. Remember, we are only talking about 7 days out of 365 that we are out there. The Sheraton Hawai’i Bowl and the Pro Bowl do not come under the same contract.
If you rent a state or city facility to hold a concert, your maintenance expenses are included in the fee. The trade-off negotiated several years ago at Aloha Stadium needs to be revisited.
In fact, a much greater percentage of the revenues generated by tenants of Aloha Stadium comes from the Swap Meet than from ticket sales. As for other income generated by vendors and sub-contractors such as parking, concession stand sales, they too pay a percentage to Aloha Stadium.
Since UH has no authority or control over these vendors or sub-contracters, there’s no reason to give them any income from parking or concession sales.
You might as well ask McDonald’s or Pizza Hut to give a portion of their sales revenues to their customers.
For longer than I can remember but certainly over the past decade, advocates and opponents of transferring Aloha Stadium’s ownership from the Department of Accounting And General Services (DAGS) to the University of Hawai`i have gone to the Legislature to speak up for or against the proposed legislation.
The opponents always win because hardly anyone from the broader community ever takes the time to speak to legislators as to why the transfer should take place.
Based upon my own personal observations, I cannot remember ever seeing or hearing from anyone outside of state government or a contractor or tenant of Aloha Stadium submit testimony or speak at public hearings – except for one person. Most of you can guess who that was.
Anything dealing with Aloha Stadium and the University of Hawai`i – parking fees, concession stands, ticket sales, facilities rentals & maintenance, administrative and decision-makin oversight & control, staff salaries – will require a lot more action on the part of fans than fulminating on a blog. Well before the start of the 2011 legislative session, there will be opportunities for fans such as the regulars here to get involved.
BTW – the single-most important issue to address by all parties are the restrictions on the entire Stadium property which were put in place more than 40 years ago when the land was transferred from the federal government to the state. Revenues generated directly by for-profit entities – not as sub-contractors working under the Stadium Authority – are not allowed. Permanent naming rights – as opposed to sponsoring game days – are not allowed.
Although I don’t want to diss non-residents for speaking up, the only ones who will be listened to are local residents who take the time to work with legislators on a regular basis.
With respect to marketing issues – there is a very strong need on the part of Jim Donovan and Virginia Hinshaw to re-evaluate both personnel & policies. This is their responsibility and not the Legislature’s. What these two recommend will be seriously considered by the Board of Regents – not rubber-stamped.
One last point – legally, the “Upper Campus” cannot write off the debt generated by the Department of Athletics over the past fiscal year deficits. Once again, to change that requires taking the time to work with legislators face-2-face to change the law..
Sorry to sound like a broken record since I’ve been saying these same things over & over for almost three years now. But it isn’t enough to expect Mark Takai to carry the burden by himself. He would have to talk to 50 other House members and 25 Senate members and there’s no way that he can do that.
Furthermore, he has a thousand other Priority Number One issues that his own constituents which need to be addressed – and that’s his job.
Actually people want tax hikes, they just don’t don’t realize that they want them. Complaining about the aging sewers, you want a tax hike. Complaining about pot holes, you want a tax hike. Complaining about a rusty 35 year old stadium, you want a tax hike. Complaining about an unsightly UH Campus, you want a tax hike. Complaining about anything, you want a tax hike. Anyway that’s what the legislature and Councilmen are hearing when you complain. Cutting cost and making things more efficient have been the rallying cry of people who complain the most. Complaining about girls not getting a fair shake in athletics, you want a tax hike. Complaining about not winning the WAC Championship on a consistent basis in any sport, you want a tax hike.
Whoops!!! Furthermore, he has a thousand other Priority Number One issues FOR his own constituents which need to be addressed – and that’s his job.
OldDiver gets it.
Concerning the Stadium and rent or maintenance fees. Remember when the BoR told JD to run the athletic department like a business? Well the legislature told the Stadium Authority the same thing. The stadium is mandated to pay it’s own way. This mishmash or arguments on why one state department charging another state department is a misunderstanding by fans believing this can be solved by the Stadium Authority alone. Like Doc said, the legislature along with the Governor will need to step in.
This Final is doing nothing for the popularity of futbol in the U.S…..
I know, yeah, d1??? It is zero-zero! Can’t score one goal, huh!
hubby and I are cheering for THE NETHERLANDS!!!
so you and hubby are on the Double Dutch Bus?
…at least they could bring back the Golden Goal for extra time.
yeah for the Dutch caravan!!! Do you realize they have been gone for 3 months — since early April.
These players get tired; then you get your opportunity.
W-Doc –
These issues have been around for a lonnnnnng time. It’s not “fulminating” to share them once again.
There should be a lot of people who testify in order to effect those changes, starting with the Upper Campus Admin and the BOR. Their testimony is key, and would have much more impact than the little guys out there. What are we paying all those big salaries for?
Any politician worth their salt would have to agree that the situation is unfair to UH Athletics.
The facts speak for themselves when you compare UH’s current situation to what others in our league are doing.
http://sports.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090513/SPORTS0201/905130381&template=UHSports
Please note Donovan’s remarks in particular.
…end this already.
Good morning everyone!
ST — The Athletic department getting the larger piece of the RainBowTique makes too much sense and you have floated his idea for years. Must be some reason why this can’t change. On the other hand, if a state agency tried running a commercial enterprise, it will probably go broke. Maybe better to subsidize the RainBowTique to a true business entity and collect a larger share of the profits… or does this happen now with the athletic department getting peanuts?
Then, how much does the Athletic department get from the vendors running the food concessions at the sporting events?
Activity fees are sorta like airlines charging for checking in baggage. Some say just raise the airfare and have “free” baggage. 🙂
…thankfully, finally.
Looks like the octopus picked the correct winner…again!
We are cheering for THE DUTCH. MIRACLE FINISH!!!!
SPAIN WINS! DARN!
The Spanish Fly!
DPK – The University administration and the Manoa Administration and the Board of Regents and the Athletic Department do speak up at these hearings. The regular tenants do as well.
It’s the public that does not show up.
If a tenth of the number of “regular” citizens who showed up in opposition to Civil Unions showed up at legislative hearings on University/Aloha Staidum issues, these problems would have been addressed a long time ago.
Take my word for it – numbers count. Right now, the Legislature has to balance its decisions based upon two different sets of special interest groups who support opposing ideas. Going with The Known – the Department of Accounting And General Services’ operational control – counts more than The Unknown when only one person from the general public speaks up for the transfer.
Another big issue keeping the Aloha Stadium under the control of DAGS is the positive $$$$ impacts on overall state revenues once Transit-Oriented Development starts taking place in three or four years.
The City released the three state-owned sites back to the state well over a year ago so the Stadium Authority and DAGS have control over what is built on that huge site – I am not just talking about the playing venue here. Ground-level commercial, retail, light industrial, businesses, multi-family housing, visitor accommodations, facilities with parking on the lower floors, and businesses on the top three or four floors, other kinds of sports facilities such as tennis courts or a car racing track all owned by private corporations and built on leased lands, and finally daily or monthly parking fees for people who drive to the site, park their cars and get on the train to go into urban Honolulu or out to West O`ahu – these projected revenues drive the state to keep the control with DAGS.
No way will DAGS permit these future revenue generators to be transferred from its control to the University of Hawai`i unless there is STRONG AND VOCAL community support at the Legislature to override them and to let the University of Hawai`i benefit from being the landlord.
Can we continue this discussion later? I have to go do household chores and then help with a community service project starting at 1 pm
#61… dpk…
Thanks for the link to that article. Funny that it was posted 14 months ago, and we’re still here discussing it.
I am so ready for football….
Spain was favored. Can you imagine the cheering in Spain?
As for the Dutch, better luck next time.
#70… doc…
I remember reading about the possible additions and uses that could be added to the stadium. I don’t know if allowing UH to be the landlord is the solution to this. I think some revenue sharing is about all that UH should be after, and it should be specific to it’s usage only. Like the last line in that article says, UH was charged nearly $105k for cleanup and refuse disposal for the 2008 season… debris that was generated by it’s usage.
How does the university fare when it comes to the SSC? Bigger crowds there for every sport can definitely help out too.
I don’t know what proper etiquette is at those legislative hearings, but if it’s anything like the local neighborhood board meetings, then it’s real plain and simple. A time limit is imposed on comments. But a short, written note, read in front of the board (for or against) is all that it takes. Just state your name, where you’re from, and read your note. Our voices can make a difference… we just gotta show up.
Mrs. Long Time UH Fan stopped by this morning to quickly visit mom and me. She noted that today is the 6 month date of Fred’s passing. Add watering eyes to my cough. She and mom might do a local Hawaii cruise together someday.
Good morning Tsai-kos! (well, what’s left of it)
VIVA ESPANA!!
There are some academic depts at UH, which by their very nature, will never generate revenue. On the other hand, there are programs at UH which exist solely due to externally funded grants. I was employed by 3 of those such programs over the course of 14 years. When the money ran out, the programs disappeared.
I truly believe that if you want to do some cost-cutting and revenue generation among academics, get rid of the tenure system. Some, but not all, will become apathetic once they reach their top rank. Require all professors to teach 3 courses a semester (that actually has students). They can reduce their teaching load by getting grants which would pay for lecturer’s salary and then some.
*getting off the soap box*
Back to your regular programming.
Know what I don’t like about soccer?
Soccer experts.
They put down the non-soccer fans, much the way opera lovers treat non-opera fans as rubes.
Baseball fans can be that way, too. Like those who claim they love pitcher’s duels.
Rainbowtique needs to upgrade it’s style of apparel as majority of it’s entire stock is the same designs that I have been seeing since 2007. Who creates the design for shirts, caps, polos and shorts or is that under the umbrella of underarmour who is the official sponsor for Hawaii football ?
I regularly go on line for Rainbowtique BUT I find the selections always the same with no new designs to CATCH my eyes. Accessories is good with special low cost prices for certain apparel but spending $25.00 for a logo or silk screen front shirt with nothing on the back won’t make the buyer to thrill of paying that amount as Hawaii apparel can be bought from other on line sport apparel stores as those profits are not split for UH athletics to receive a percentage or am I wrong for coming to this conclusion ?
Mahalo !
BTW, would there be any interest in putting in luxury boxes at the SSC?
On one hand, UH should run the stadium.
On the other, that’s a frickin’ hard job.
SteveM,
Yep. Miss that guy…
RCliff, you have seen on this blog regularly about the “marketing” problems, yet some are simple to correct while others may take time, but the worst thing is that nothing is done. This has been UH’s problem for years. Their investment in upgrading marketing is zero and no one appears willing to take charge of marketing.
UH doesn’t use its resources enough.
Rainbow Cliff is correct. Merchandise needs an overhaul.
Why not use the fashion-design program to design new wears?
Why not build an on-campus hotel, and let the Travel Industry majors run it?
Why not fix up Hamilton and turn that into the state library?
Why not have have art students create the art that the state requires 1 percent of all projects must include?
Why not start graduate programs for physical therapy and pharmacy?
Why not start a culinary school at UH-Manoa?
Why not have the business school take over the UH Foundation?
A walk’s as good as a hit! 😆
Good Luck to Coach Nash-san!
It seems like some of those would be like vocational training programs. Aren’t some already being done at the CC’s?
but getting back to “fees”. You take 5-6 courses per semester and the cost of the books is between $30-$300 per book and the book is good for only one semester cause the next semester for the continuing same course requires another book. Families get charged anywhere from $500-$1200 for books that will be used only once and you accept this as routine????? What you going do with the book after that??? Nothing, absolutely nothing!!!
I agree with RainbowCliff. When I go to Rainbowtique the place is almost empty and and when I look around it is ho hum.
buying books for classes is like buying cars. you pay for the book, walk out of the store, and now the book is worth less than 15% of the original cost.
ST – # 83 – there is a School of Pharmacy at UHH. When the first class graduates next year, they will receive full accreditation.
Don’t know much about the culinary programs at the community colleges, but how about a joint program with SBA/TIM to train the chefs to run their own restaurants?
I have always been surprised that there is no culinary school at UHM.
#83
Money.
I would love to be soccer referee if I did not have to run so much.
They have so much power.
RedZone,
…and when people complain, you just claim not to understand their language! 😆
Unions.
😳
Synonymous….
🙄
Hey all… It’s 7/11 day which means free mini slurpee’s while supplies last!
Redzone: There is a new Hawaii clothing apparel called 808 as they are begining a large collection of Hawaii apparel BUT the only problem they don’t have the license rights to use the ‘H’ logo as am I to understand that Rainbowtique is the only official license store to sale UH merchandise ?
Barefoot League Hawaii athletic apparel are they still operating as I have some unique shirts that they have created BUT don’t know are the Buders still operating the franchise ?
Das what I say!
Hire gurus to administrate the business and fill the staff with UH interns majoring in an applicable field. Hands on experience will go a long way for these interns once they earn their degrees.
Student fee –
YES! Actually, it’s about time!
Why did the University asked the students if they wanted one in the first place? Now that’s the really big question.
Dang, why not ask them if they wanted to pay tuition as well.
It is what it is and compared to other insitutions, well, it’s almost “nothing”.
UH Athletics NEEDS it to survive. To me, it’s a “no brainer”.
Have some “balls” for once UH Board of Regents! My only fear is the “nitwits” that will diserse the money, I mean it’s not like administrators have a golden track record.
Aloha,’EH NO MAKE!
I see both sides of the student fee argument. I’m not at UH anymore so it doesn’t affect me at all. But I equate the student fee to the union fees that I had to pay. I hated paying them. The union couldn’t get me more money, nor could it guarantee my job if JJ got fired. I basically had to work out my own compensation with the school through JJ, and I knew if he got fired, my job wasn’t guaranteed with the next guy coming in. So I hated paying this fee. I think the students look at it the same way. They don’t see the benefit, so most are against paying it.
And Kazz, I hate to disagree with you, but in this country, we do live in a democracy. Or at least we’re supposed to. We may not agree with the majority decision, but it is still based on the majority vote.
Paka,
But sometimes the majority vote isn’t always right. For example, if the Civil Rights bill had been put in the South, would the bill have passed?
We need a wise Legislature and Governor to do the right thing, whatever that may be.
Yep, I know the pharmacy school is in Hilo. But there needs to be one on Oahu. I know a lot of people who spend a lot of money at Creighton learning how to dispense drugs.
Wait. That didn’t come out right.
ST: re your 83. You raise some good points.
I take exception to having the business school take over UHF. Continuity is a high priority in dealing with potential and actual donors. There is also the problem of investments and re-investments.
Theory and actual practice and knowledge are two different things.
While Ivy Tower and worldly knowledge are not mutually exclusive, they often are not combined.
Garret is the one of the few that combine the two – but he apparently left the ivy tower and got into the “real” world.
Old Diver,
I see what you mean in trying to equate this fee with tax hikes. But the problem lies in do we trust how our tax dollars are managed by those in power to manage them. I think it’ the same problem as the student fee. For instance, I don’t like the idea of a tax for hurricane relief if the money is going to be used for everything other than hurricane relief.
I think the students feel the same way. They don’t want to pay a fee to athletics because they feel the fee is going to pay for overblown salaries. The school needs to sell the students a lot better than they are, to show that it isn’t for salaries. That’s hard to do, because no matter what, they’ll look at it as the reason the budget can’t be balanced is because of the salaries.
gigi,
That may have been true, but I think if you put the vote to the whole country, the majority would have been in favor of civil rights. It does work itself out. If there wasn’t a groundswell of support for it, I can guarantee, the politicians wouldn’t have supported it either.
My feeling is the administration was going to bail out the athletic department, anyway. So whether it does so using newly implemented student fees or giving the money from other fund, it was going to happen. Again, the athletic department appears to be under-funded. If it were to be treated as a business, then it would drop the programs that don’t make money. Just like UH probably should close down the Campus Center or Hamilton Library because they don’t create enough revenue to be self-sufficient. But a university, to be well-rounded, should subsidize programs, because a diverse university is a better university.
If you think about it, Dobelle raided the athletic department’s rainy-day fund to help offset expenses. Should the athletic department have charged interest? Or even payback? Of course not. It’s still one university.
The chancellor’s fault was polling the students to give the appearance they have a say when they really don’t. By the way, it’s interesting that ASUH claims more than 70 percent of students polled were against a student fee, although it is not know how many were polled. It also should be noted that the ASUH president received 1,200 votes in the election, meaning more than 95 percent of the eligible students didn’t vote for him.
Paka,
BTW, what kind of meal does your football team eat before a game, and how much time before the game?
High on carbs or protein?
Pre-game meal is usually high-carb. Pasta with marinara/ meat sauce or white clam sauce. Also a protein like baked chicken or something. At UH, Bianca also had a table to make sandwiches which I loved and we don’t have at SMU. But we do have Ice cream nights the day before the game. We have chocolate and vanilla ice cream with every topping that you can think of. I like putting malted milk ball and butterfingers on mine.
As for the Athletic fee, I’m neither for or against, I’m just saying the school needs to do a better job of selling the students. Simply saying f- the students, we going do it anyway isn’t a good business practice.
Paka,
If the game starts at 6 pm, what time does the team eat?
GREAT info Tsaiko Nation as I am off with Mrs. RainbowCliff to enjoy driving South Bay and spending some hubby and wifey TIME !
Will get back with you good folks later as I have enjoyed reading your intelligent and thoughtful comments on the many subjects stated above !
Continue to have a GREAT July Sunday !
The problem isn’t instituting the fee, the problem started a long time ago when they abolished it in the 70’s. Something they never should have done in the first place. Tuition has shot up since then and there is no transparency as to where every dollar is being funneled. It’s just correcting a 30 year + old mistake.
Why doesn’t Rainbowtique fall under AD? You don’t see any “Go Math” department shirts. Has there been any autograph signings by “prominent” profs, etc.
Too bad about the two top recruits — linebackers Zachary Quines of Mililani High and Tu’ulauena Lolohea of Kapolei High — who will not play for the University of Hawaii this season.
I wish them well and hope they find their way back to play for the home team.
Good statistic, ST. Most people going for post-graduate degrees are firmly lectured in statistics and sample size if gathering data to support your thesis. To me, unless we know the size of the sample (the number who actually was polled) i do not place to much credibility in the ASUH poll results except on the general principle that people do not want to pay additional “taxes” or fees.
Then you have the apathy factor. This is analogous to my professor telling me that if I mailed out a 100 polls asking them if they responded to polls regularly, I would probably find a 90% + correlation to the answer “yes” to the polls returned to me. However, how many of the 100 polls were returned to me? That would be the closer answer. So, student the most opposed are the most likely to participate in a poll. Those that are neutral or even positive may not go out of their way to vote.
Would the salaries be “overblown” if the team went 11-2 these past two seasons with 2 Hawaii Bowl victories?
Would the students be 70% “For” a fee implementation?
#21 . . .
Mr. Tsai, I agree. Accountability and transparency is always a good thing. Sounds like the AD has been improving the transparency of how the $50 fee will be spent. The ASUH should also ask for the same transparency for their tuition. I wonder how many would agree with having to subsidize pay for the higher paid profs? Or the concerts at the student center — since it is a commuter school how many students actually benefit? Would they then ask for a lowered tuition since frosh usually have lecturers or GA’s. Or because they do not participate in the free concerts?
They also need to see how much of their tuition is subsidized by the general public per university student. They would find their portion of the tuition and fees they currently pay to be small compared to the true expenses of their education.
If they want accountability and transparency then it should work both ways. That is why I suggested they be allowed to vote on paying the $50 additional fee or begin paying the full costs of their education without the $50 fee.
“We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.” B. Franklin
Odd comments in the article about Quines and Lolohea.
Hey? since the fees don’t get implemented till Spring at the earliest, why don’t we take polls at the first few UH games.. football.. whatever?
mih . . .
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha! ASUH would have a fit if they knew the size of the sample, locale, and the validity of the sample. Best thing would be do it and just report the finding much as they did.
Early meal. Headed off to the Sound of Music.
The hills are alive . . .
Now you know why I do not do karaoke. HA!
ASUH is just like any other political organization… they don’t have the whole picture.
gigi-
pre-game was at 3pm.
I think most students would believe they are subsidizing their full educational costs. Even if were proven that taxpayers pay for their education, which I’m not sure that is true, they would consider themselves taxpayers as well.
Unless you’re like me, where I had the KSBE scholarship while attending UH.
d1,
At public universities, coaching salaries are always considered overblown, especially in this economy, whether you win or lose if it comes 100% from the school. If you can get private donors to foot most of the cost, it kind of shuts people up, but people still think it’s too high.
ST,
You’re probably right as regards to Upper campus bailing out the Athletic department anyway. So just call the fee what it is. A tuition hike to fund the athletic program.
if you just call it a tuition hike, then there would be no need for a vote from ASUH right? Just need approval from the Board of Regents.
You know what?
Now that we are discussing Student Fees again.. If they are NOT going to implement the student fee, I think it is unfair that student fees were abolished AFTER I graduated from UH and that all students before that had to pay the fee. So, maybe all the surviving alumni before student fees were abolished should be granted a refund of all student fees they paid with interest. I mean, this is in all fairness to students past and present, eh? AND, I will pledge to donate my refund to the Athletic Department.
hahaha!!! MIH,
For 1964-1968, how much of a refund would that be? If I remember correctly, the activity fee was BELOW $3 per semester.
Might as well fogetaboutit.
Since we are helping with the tuition, my daughter really doesn’t care about an extra fee.
gigi.. it was $25… add interest based on the prevailing rates of each year… then mulitply by the number or alumni from the 50’s till the late 70’s… we’d probably have enough to build a scholarship fund for all the athletes.
University of AINOKEA at Manoa
$25? How can that be? My tuition was $110 per semester.
ST – the pharmacy school is still new and not very well publicized. As time goes by, more in-state students would stay home to attend pharmacy school. As far as I can tell, they are putting emphasis on community service. I don’t the state can support more than 1 professional school of a kind.
BUT… I can see making it a voluntary option for all UH students and UH system Community College students. Then raise it to $75 instead of just $50. Those who pay reap the benefits of free and heavily discounted extra-curicular activities.. including dance concerts and theatre. They should include discounts at Rainbowtique. Those who don’t, pay full price like any other adult or outsider. Only those who’s IDs show that they paid can use the Gym, pool or other athletic facilities when the teams aren’t using them. All others pay a “Day activity fee” for it’s use.
Jm2375,
The federal govt has also awarded a grant to UHH to start a physical therapy school there.
I like post #83! I wonder how much money the school would save by having it run, hands on, by faculty and students?
The local economy being so dependent on tourism, it’s almost strange to not have courses available that are directly tied to the industry.
And to SteveM in post #113… bullseye!
I think the fact that the Stadium isn’t on campus has a lot to do with the students not really being into it. Plus, as someone stated earlier, UH is more of a commuter campus.
At other schools, students vote for Athletic fees because it actually does benefit them. They attend the games because that one of the events to do on campus. The fee allows them to get in for free. Just look at the fans for the Fresno games when we play there. The majority of the stadium seems to be filled with students(or drunken Fresno people).
gigi..
Maybe it was $15… but I’m pretty sure it was $20-25 from 1970… at least that’s what I think I paid. There were two fees. A smaller one and the larger one that covered sporting events, theatre and concerts. I was living on my own, working and paying my way through school so every penny was hard to come by… I believe tuition in 1970 was something like $12 a credit, to a maximum of 12 credit, over that it was free. By the time I left school it was double that. I left school for two years to fulfill my civil service duties at the local hospitals, and doubled up the credits, taking as much as 24 just to save money.
MIH,
Great suggestion – I’ll go for that!
Paka – #136 – I attended Georgetown and paid an activity fee, still had to pay for basketball season tickets and bus tickets to get to the game which was not on campus (40 min during rush hour). Hardly ever used the athletic facilities. There was a student-run grocery store, sundry store and fast-food place.
#132 Re: UH Pharmacy School. I think the first class will be graduating this year (could be wrong)? Heard that the one complaint is that many students can’t wait to complete their studies and leave Hilo (too small town for many). However, I think it’s in the general plan for UH to expand their Hilo campus and West Oahu and not be so Manoa-centric.
I think historically, Oregon State has had a large number of Hawaii residents attending their pharmacy school. Let’s see would I like to study in Hilo or Corvallis?
Football Gameplan’s 2010 WAC Season Preview Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv5CKQnsF7o – Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjj4knFwtGo – Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnQH7265Sf0 – Part 3
Courtesy of SportsHawaii’s EmDiggy
jm2375,
Congrats, Georgetown is an awesome school. Was most students against the fee? Is it also a commuter campus.
Like I said, every school is different. Even when we were into the whole Sugar Bowl season, there was sort of a disconnect with the students. They were liking it, but was there an increase in student attendance? Not really. At least not until the end of course when everyone wanted to come to the games. Although, more people did ask us for free tickets or sideline passes.
sure
Paka,
Regarding democracy and the way the business world works it’s NOT true democracy and business decisions run the real world.
maybe
Paka – most undergrad students lived on or near campus. Not sure about the feeling for/against the fee. We paid so much in tuition what was another $100? Anyways, this was back in the glory days of Hoya basketball (3 national championship games, 1 win – Ewing, et al) and when the drinking age was 18.
I honestly believe that almost everybody who is discussing the fee today has missed the point, and Dave Reardon’s article completely missed the real point of the student activities fee. The fee is just a tuition hike and it will NOT give UH Athletics any additional money to spend!
The *real* facts of the matter is that Upper Campus DOES support the Athletic Department, and Upper Campus is tired of UH’s Athletic Department spending $2 million more than it has budgeted every year. So, the fee is a way to reduce the money that Upper Campus has been giving to the Athletic Department. The fee is not a way to improve the operation of the Athletic Department or help any of UH’s teams improve on or off the field.
Calling it a student activities fee that is going to the Athletic Department makes so many people here and in the general public support it even though it is just a tuition hike. Nobody seems to be realizing this point, which is what those imposing the fee should be very happy with.
Kazz,
I own my own business. You still need a majority vote of your partners, board members, and or stockholders. In large corporations, you even need the labor vote because of the unions.
Whether you agree or not. Simply saying “I could care less what you think, we’re doing it regardless” is never a good decision. They need to present this better to everyone. Students, Parents, the community
Let’s put it this way. I guarantee you, if we were to put this vote to the public that said we are raising taxes to bail out the athletic department at UH because it does the community a service. You’ll have the same percentage of people for and against. And the same arguments would arise. Some would be against it because of a perceived mismanagement of said tax.
But before we blame Upper Campus, we should look at what they should be expected to pay. If you look at all D-IA schools, on average their Athletic Departments get 22.7% of their money from government funding or their Upper Campuses.
In 2007-2008, Upper Campus gave $5,244,088 in direct institutional support and $4,578,883 in indirect institutional support to the Athletic Department. That was 26.3% of the total revenue of the Athletic Department. So, Upper Campus funded the Athletic Department *above* the amount that is normal for a D-IA school! In 2008-2009, Upper Campus gave over 30% of the Athletic Department’s revenue, so Upper Campus paid far more than average to the Athletic Department!
The key thing to note is that UH’s Athletic Department got $0 in student fees. So, the student fee is going to raise this by $1.9 million…and Upper Campus will decrease its support by $1.9 million. No additional penny will go to the Athletic Department after the fee is instituted!
Upper Campus has subsidized the Athletic Department above the norm for D-IA schools. They are tired of doing so without the fee, so they will institute the fee and have extra money to deal with their budget shortfalls.
This is good business for UH. Calling it a fee for athletics is much more popular than calling it a tuition hike. But when UH’s Athletic Department gets no additional money, how is this different than a tuition hike?
Garrett,
That’s what I was saying earlier. Call it what it is, a tuition hike.
You do make a great point in that the money won’t increase the AD’s budget.
Garret,
I am curious as to how you know that. Has admin stated its intentions?
jm2375,
did you major in political science or law? almost everyone that i met who attended Georgetown was either into politics or a lawyer. Sorry for the stereotype.
gigi,
It has always been stated that the student activities fee will be used for deficit reduction for the Athletic Department. This means it will reduce the money that Upper Campus has been subsidizing Athletics. Maybe Upper Campus will give $8 million instead of $9.9 million…that is still a lot of money, but they can use the $1.9 million desperately since the budget situation is so tough right now.
It has been consistently stated when they have discussed the fee that nothing from the fee will be going for pay raises. Everyone, including JD, has talked about how this fee will be used for deficit reduction. They also gloss over the fact that athletic scholarships will have to pay the fee also, so expenses for athletics will increase significantly.
People, especially the media, have focused on the $2 million deficit that the Athletic Department has. I bet that many fans discussing the issue don’t realize that Upper Campus has been giving many other millions every year that UH’s Athletic Department relies on as part of their budget.
Even our high schools has an activity/athletic fee.
Garrett,
That is why I don’t believe that a fee would solve the problems at UH. I’m not just talking about the AD but for the University as a whole. You can only raise tuition so much to maintain equilibrium.
Funding from the State needs to improve. I’m not sure how, but maybe say take a percentage from whatever resource we have in Hawaii. Maybe it’s natural gas or tourism or whatever, and invest that into education. Until the State does that, there is no way the University can run our AD at a higher level. Either that or find some major donors to the school. Problem is most of our heavy hitters never attended UH.
This may not be the answer, but neither is raising taxes or tuition.
As Americans, we can be the most generous people in the world when the choice is ours to give. But when people force us to give, we hate it. That’s how I perceive the tuition fee hike. I’m neither for it nor against, but I would like to see UH become better funded. But I can understand why the students are so against it as well.
Bottom line another state funded institution has no idea how to budget. Their ways of running their finances will make almost all private firms sick to the stomach. This is a problem of the system and until the system and those rules of controlling the money changes, don’t expect UH athletics to rise to the top. Never heard 3, 5, 10, 20, 25 year planning being done on where the athletic program will be. Failing to plan will always be like a ship, sailing in the ocean without a destination.
Not an Expert,
And therein lies the problem. No one trusts how the money is going to be spent.
Paka,
The state has a huge deficit. Tourism is down and industries in Hawaii are not doing as well as in many other states. The State does not have as much money as they used to have and people get upset when money is cut for schools and other services.
Look at the facts. Two newspapers shrunk into one. TV stations in Hawaii are consolidating because there simply isn’t enough money to support that industry anymore. That is because businesses are down and there is less money around in Hawaii. Less money is coming from the outside the state to Hawaii, so how does the State (both government and industries) spend more?
to fee or not to fee…that is the question.
tack on the fee…athletics are part of the old college experience.
students who don’t take advantage of being part of the college athletics have chosen their lack of participation. however, they should all be assessed the nominal $50 annual fee.
take it or leave it.
becomng a fan of your universities sports program is the one thing that will bond you forever to your alma mater more so than the any other experience that you will have.
yah, its a commuter school if you let it be one.
…nuff said.
Garrett,
There we go. If the government can’t afford to fund the school. How can the school fund athletics. That is the problem.
Didn’t miss the point…but what I do see is an underlying potential to increase student participation and to nurture the future fan. When they see a visible “fee,” I believe more students will at least try to attend a game or two.. some of these will get hooked on the atmosphere, the game itself, or something else. This can only help UH athletics in the long run. Long after they graduate. If they continue to be fans and pick up season tickets after they graduate for years to come. How much will they put back into the program? Multiply by the thousands….
Paka,
I guess the school just wants to fund Athletics a little less…the fee will solve that problem for them. If the school really wanted to give the Athletic Department more money to upgrade itself, the fee would have been $100/semester…that way, the deficit would be gone and the extra money would be used to upgrade the program. Having the fee provide less than the deficit shows that the fee is for deficit reduction only.
I don’t know much, but I do know I loved college.
I loved intramurals — midnight basketball games in Klum Gym, softball games on Cooke, inner-tube water polo.
I loved those burritos from the Campus Center, and the video game room, and the refreshments at Manoa Garden.
I loved working at Ka Leo, and even in the grad division, where the clerks would feed me baked goods.
And, yeah, I even liked some of the classes: i must have taken enough of them since I have degree.
So my advice to all: enjoy everything UH has to offer. Take advantage of every service. And, if possible, never leave. Because there aren’t that many jobs out there and you’ll never meet as many people as you’ll meet in college. Well, unless, you become a blog host …
Activity fees for football/basketball if student don’t want their tickets they should be able to
transfer their tickets to a family member. Why because it’s paid for. That person can use your ticket only if they pay a transfer fee to UH for $10.00 or more per ticket depending on the team UH is playing. If their playing a team like USC you could be charge $20.00 per game
All tickets will be Open seating in student section and other marked area through out the stadium. This will be done 45 minutes before game time. Think it will bring in a few extra dollars for the Athletic Department.
Sometimes UH is it’s own worst enemy.
Paka – I was premed.
I like most of Big Bro’s ideas, except the ones that would bring more people onto campus, where parking is already impossible. And as an eternal grad student, I’d hate to have Hamilton turn into the state library. It’s already hard when you need a book/journal for a project and it’s already checked out. Plus, no library that serves an accredited university should have multiple copies of “Twilight.”
Worst development on the upper campus in the last 10 years? Plenty vegan plate lunches but no more chili dogs.
Nothing wrong with taking ten years to pay off a ten-year debt. And I disagree with Garret’s take on the fee. The budget allocations from the Manoa Fiscal Office will not be reduced. As I said earlier, what I was told is that the fee going to the DoA will be allocated in part to the deficit and in part to the current year’s budget without a reduction.
I have asked for accounting documents to verify the losses and what they were for.
The Department of Athletics can increase revenues by increasing attendance and utilizing the new city policy of renting out The Stan as well as The Les – and The Ching in a couple of years – to other entities.
However, the biggest change in revenues has to come from a change in existing laws concerning naming rights, corporate sponsorships, and “ownership” of Aloha Stadium, especially after Transit-Oriented Development begins.
Currently, the best that we can hope for is that the marketing department will get enough corporate sponsors to pick up the costs of a particular game or match or, in the case of the biggies, a tournament. However, gp back to the start of the NCAA March Madness and see how many of the 32 sites for the first round had corporate names – even if the facilities were located on the campus.
That cannot happen here in Hawai`i UNLESS & UNTIL THE LAWS ARE CHANGED
I did want to clarify one point made earlier. When the Legislature holds hearings on Aloha Stadium issues, the Stadium Authority brings 15 – 20 – 25 – 30 Swap Meet vendors who support the current system. The University of Hawai`i and the Department of Athletics are there by themselves. If we want change, then we have to be front & center.
ST, #166 —
Interesting to read what you liked about your college experience.
Me? I remember the guys.
At UH – I worked in the Psych Dept (Gartley Hall) and dated grad assistants from the mainland.
At Columbia — I worked in the Biology Dept and dated grad assistants and post-doctoral fellows.
So, I never needed to belong to a sorority to meet frat boys. I met my future hubby via a classmate at the Music Dept at UH.
TsaiMeister#167: AMEN kind sir as still TODAY I enjoyed ALL my years at UH and did the WHOLE Island as playing for the Bows was a TREMENDOUS experience and living among the locals was simply HEAVEN !
Going to class on upper campus was EDUCATIONAL as going down stairs to the book store was an adventure in it self. LOVED campus center, college walk, Hawaii Hall, Founders Gate, COE and walking University Avenue pure JOY !
ALWAYS went to class as during my time professors will lecture as my note taking skills was BAD at the begining but receiving tutoring support during my elgibility I improved in which I could take notes on the fine points and took them home to study and PASS that test or final exam !
Referee Intramural at Klum gym for field work assignment and ENJOYED all the students who emulated my tenacity on the courts as they were THRILLED to have me officiate their games !
GREATEST moment in my life was GRADUATING as we had our commencement outside were the Psychology and Kuykendall Hall were located as that grass area was FILLED to capacity with all of us seated in our cap and gown as LEIS were all around my neck and shoulders !
LOVE UH and don’t have NO regrets !
UA~MAU~KE~EA~O~KA~AINA~I~KA~PONO / MA LAMA LAMA !
“The life of the land is perptuated in righteousness” !
Terrific work! This is the type of information that should be shared around the web. Shame on the search engines for not positioning this post higher!
WassupDoc,
You and I have disagreed about this many times because we are looking at things from different perspectives. Yes, Upper Campus is NOT decreasing the amount they *plan* to give to the Athletic Department. However, they ARE decreasing the amount that they give to the Athletic Department every year to cover the deficit.
To put things simply:
$2 million dollars raised by the student activities fee
$100k goes to things for the students
$950k goes to reduce the $10 million overall deficit
$950k goes to reduce the $2 million annual deficit
Upper Campus gets $950k of the $10 million overall deficit paid back, money that they wouldn’t have gotten without the student activity fee. The UH Athletic Department does NOT see a single penny of that money. You do not dispute this as being a fact, you say that it is good for the debt to be retired.
Upper Campus has to cover only about $1 million of the Athletic Department’s deficit each year instead of covering $2 million of the deficit. Upper Campus saves $950k each year that they no longer have to use to pay for the annual deficit. The UH Athletic Department does NOT see a single penny of that money.
So, Upper Campus *is* saving $1.9 million per year with the student activities fee. The UH Athletic Department is NOT getting a single extra penny to spend from the student activities fee. $1.9 million is being shifted from a subsidy that Upper Campus has to give the Athletic Department to a fee that the students will pay. This means that the student activities fee is a tuition hike and NONE of that money is going to be spent by the Athletic Department.
Where your response from UH is flawed is that the *budget allocation* is not being reduced. The annual deficit the Athletic Department has is NOT in the budget! The amount that Upper Campus *plans* to give to the Athletic Department is not being reduced. However, the amount that Upper Campus has had to cover due to the annual deficits *is* being reduced.
So, you are being given a politically correct answer that the “budget allocation” is not going to be reduced after the fee. However, ALL of that $1.9 million is going to Upper Campus and the UH Athletic Department will not spend a single extra penny after the fee.
I would *love* to be wrong about this. I would *love* for the Athletic Department to have $1.9 million extra to spend. But follow the money and follow the specific uses of what the money is going to be used for. The facts are clear from the statements from UH and from every description of the fee.
Let us look at another issue.
UHAD currently has an overall deficit of slightly over $10 million.
UHAD current has an annual deficit of $2 million.
After 1 year, $950k of the student activities fee will be applied to the deficit. That means that the overall deficit will be reduced to $9.05 million.
However, UHAD has an annual deficit of $2 million that will be reduced to $1.05 million by the other $950k of the student fee.
That means that after 1 year is over, the overall deficit will actually grow to $10.1 million! The deficit will GROW, not shrink, even after the student activities fee.
Maybe JD’s measures like the increased parking revenue will pay off and UH’s Athletic Department will net an extra $100k this year. Remember the 7% pay reductions that JD, Mack, and others took will end, so UH’s expenses will grow when their salaries go back to what they are in their contracts. Remember also that every scholarship at UH will cost an extra $100 per year.
So, if the Athletic Department can raise so much more money that they net $100k more than last year…the deficit will STAY at $10 million even after the student activities fee will start! The activities fee will NOT reduce the deficit unless something else significant happens.
Applying $950k per year to the $10 million deficit and saying that the deficit will be paid off in 10 years is REALLY overlooking the fact that every year the Athletic Department loses $2 million per year without the fee. They can apply the $950k to the deficit and then increase the deficit by $950k or more due to the annual losses. How is the deficit being paid off by the student activities fee?
ST on 166,
Agree with everything you said. I would have loved to become a professional student but I had to pay the bills. If I could’ve survived, I wouldn’t have left. There were many other courses I wanted to take.
Remember, the fee won’t start until the spring semester, so for the 2010-2011 academic year, there will be $475k to be applied to the $10 million deficit and $475k to try to close the annual budget deficit. If things do not change significantly, this is what we will have:
Deficit at the start of 2010-2011: $10.1 million
Deficit after $475k is used to reduce it: $10.1 million – $475k = $9.625 million
Deficit expected during the 2010-2011 year without the fee: $1.9 million (let us assume the Athletic Department nets $100k more).
Deficit after $475k is given from the fee: $1.9 million – $475k = $1.425 million
Deficit after the 2010-2011 is over: $9.625 million + $1.425 million = $11.05 million.
Does this go along with the claim that the deficit will be paid off in 10 years? Even ignoring the increased expenses due to higher scholarship costs and the removal of the 7% reductions in salaries, I fail to see how the deficit will not increase in 2010-2011, and even with a full year of the fee in 2011-2012 the Athletic Department needs to raise revenues and cut costs just to have the deficit stay where it is.
Garret,
You are assuming the fee will remain fixed for a long time. Admin will find some way to increase it.
Maybe they should start it at $100 and charge only the incoming freshmen for the 1st year. Then Sophmore and Freshmen the 2nd year… Jr and Soph, Fresh the 3rd year and all years thereafter. That way anyone who came to UH because they didn’t charge an activity fee won’t have to pay one till graduation.
All other classes would pay on a voluntary basis. If they want to go to the games or take advantage of all the other discounts and freebies that the fee covers, they can pay. If not, they either don’t go or pay full rate with no special “student” discounts.
ST & Tsaiko Blog Dogs,
Matriculating at UH was a good gig…activity fee was nominal considering all we had to do was show “pink copy” of our paid tuition receipt to get into athletic events. After having such a great experience with UH sporting events as a student, I joined AKA after graduation to help support athletics. This blog is an extension of the UH Athletics. I feel soon we will pay a fee to view this blog as well.
the athletic department’s deficit needs a shot in the arm from the two biggest revenue generating programs, football and basketball. both need to start winning this coming season which should result in increases in gate and other incidental revenues.
the student activity fee is necessary in this day and age and should have been in place years ago. however, the bottom line is that football and basketball both need to turn themselves around this year.
Just ween sum gamz and get moa beeg kine crowds so no moa $2 million short alla time
bcs vs uh….
i had to chuckle to myself as scout.com is publishing it’s early season top recruiting classes thus far for year 2011. the likely candidates are all there texas, ohio st, et al.
yup, of course all of the bcs powers to be are in the top twenty. not surprising at all.
of course we would be dead last at this point since we have not one announced recruit’s verbal commitment thus far.
Numbahs no mean everyting, get da kine intangimables too
GO WARRIORS!!!
BEAT USC!!!
Garret:
You’re assuming that Department of Athletics revenues will stay the same and that operating expenses will either stay the same or increase from one year to the next.
The first is highly unlikely to happen given the new giving programs being initiated by UH Foundation through `Ahahui Koa Anuenue.
Again, I am only talking about sports played on campus and not at Aloha Stadium because those costs cannot be controlled by the DoA’s administrative staff.
I am also assuming that there will be no change in UH’s status as a FBS/D-1A school. If thaat does occur, then it’s a whole new ballgame.
About a year ago, I asked someone at Sodexho if they had any idea how much money the average attendee spent at The Stan or The Les. The assistant manager said that it averages out to about $7 per adult per game/match. For every 100 additional individuals in the seats, that’s another $700 in gross revenues.
Perhaps Stephen could verify what the percentage of each sale goes to the Department.
Then there’s initiating cost reductions. What would those be? Reducing the number of support employees? Putting solar panels on the roof of The Stan, The Les and The administration building to reduce electrical costs? Negotiating for reductions in travel costs?
Paying less for labor or toilet paper or ticket printing charges?
No matter what – the full fiscal impacts of the fee will not be known until after July 2012.
Long day – time for beddybye. Hope to see some of you folks at the Quarterback luncheon feature Coach Bob Coolen tomorrow.
My Road Runner ethernet connection has been really bad today, going down 4-6 times per hour…and sometimes staying down for 15 minutes. It’s been getting worse and worse since January this year. It usually does down only 2-8 times an hour for 3-5 minutes. 👿 This is in the middle Liliha area in town.
Anyway, it forced me to get some work and errands done. Maybe Oceanic can put a positive spin on this by saying it gets you out of the house. Grrrrr. When I return from my trip, I will really be looking for an ISP alternative.
Good night everyone!
SteveM, when I first hooked up with RoadRunner they said it was the fastest internet possible. Now they say for $9.95 a month, you can have even faster access. I noticed too that my RR was not as fast, so maybe they want us to pay more to get better service. Sounds like UH athletics=).
Pomai,
Check your email when you get up early in the morning.
G’night all!
Oh, saw JaM, and her daughters & the bf at Aiea Bowl today! I didn’t bowl, but it was fun watching all of dose bowlahs.
K, night!
Great Morning All!
Hope everyone has a great week! As for me…
I’m ready for football!
HiHo….
Good morning all,
Thanks Garret for the info above and rebuttal from CwD.
Capitol -ist/WassupDoc:
During your conversation about the ‘student fee’ at UH, lets assume the fees pays down the $10m deficit in the next x years as argued along with increased revenues from FB and MBB and the other successful sports programs.
Who gets to keep and use fees collected that is no longer needed for athletic dept. deficit reduction?
Is it upper campus or the athletic dept or both?…….. WHY?
Garret,
Care to share your thoughts on this too?
Morning Warriors!
Good comments from yesterday. Will continue to read with coffee…
Good Morning Tsai-kos!
I wish UH would be more transparant with their game plan on how this activity fee will be used to offset the AD deficit over the next ten years. If one thinks in simple terms, it doesn’t look like 50 dollars per semester will be enough.
702 Warrior Fan:
First of all, there really is no diffeence between the upper campus and the lower campus other than the fact that Dole Street separates them. All full-time employees – as opposed to some contractor services – work for the state of Hawai`i, including the coaches. All the student-athletes are considered part of the University of Hawai`i academic system. In fact, during the regular school year, the vast majority of the student-athletes will take most, if not all, of their academic classes in the “upper” campus.
In any case, I assume that the decision as to post-debt distribution will be decided at a later time. However, I can raise that issue in my testimony submitted on Thursday. It also depends upon if the fee is truly an activity fee to fund all extracurricular activities as it was at UW and UCLA when I went to those school rather than just an athletic fee. If the former were to be established, then there would not be any need to adjust the distribution.
http://www.ocregister.com/sports/less-257277-training-pac.html
Argues Hawaii will test the USC secondary but the battle will be won in the trenches.
What they’re saying: “This year’s Hawaii team will be the textbook definition of fun-bad. The offense will put up a bazillion yards, the defense will give up yards and points by the bucketload, and Warrior games will once again be late-night appointment television for college football fans looking to close out their Saturdays (and start off their extremely early Sunday mornings) with a bang.” — CollegeFootballNews.com
702WarriorFan,
I think I’m going to probably agree with WassupDoc that the Athletic Department will get to keep the money after the $10+ million deficit is paid off. That assumes that there is no annual deficit either. Otherwise, what is the incentive for the Athletic Department to try to end the deficit?
My assumption, based on everything that has been said and written thus far, has been that the Athletic Department will be allowed to increase its spending after the deficit is paid off. Where I disagreed with WassupDoc was with her statement that the deficit would be paid off in 10 years with this student activities fee. My opinion, which is hopefully wrong, is that the deficit will not decrease after the student activities fee because the annual deficit will swallow up the entire $1.9 million acquired by the fee.
WassupDoc and others are correct that other things could change that could get UHAD out of its deficit. I *agree* with her point there. But I do *not* agree that this fee is the solution to the problem…I just don’t see how the math works for that. The best that this fee can hope to do is to stop the deficit from growing.
They could always double the fee in 3 years. However, if half of the fee is used for overall deficit reduction then that means that it will take 6 or so years with the doubled fee to pay off the accumulated deficit. That means that the Athletic Department would be waiting for *10 years* before it can start upgrading itself. By the the conference realignment shuffle will be all done.
I think that the student activities fee is a nice first step, but I’ve said all along that it was too low to actually show any benefit to the Athletic Department. UH will soon announce the good news that the fee has been approved by the Board of Regents…but I don’t think that *anyone* should be satisfied or think that the problems that the Athletic Department has will be solved by the fee. The Athletic Department needs a LOT more help than this fee provides. And I know that WassupDoc will agree with that point.
Oops, I guess my assumption was wrong…I just read WassupDoc’s post that the Athletic Department might *not* be able to keep the fee money once the deficit is paid off. If that is the case, then the fee would be completely for Upper Campus and nothing in the fee would be actually going to upgrade the Athletic Department.
Here is one example of how things could change that would have a big impact on UH’s Athletic Department budget situation. When asked for an example of a state program he would cut, Neil Abercrombie says that he would eliminate the Stadium Authority and give the stadium to UH.
Question to UH compliance person
Voluntary and involuntary workouts are referred to student-athlete discretionary time.
Currently the Warriors players are in discretionary time.
Doesn’t the rules state that coaches may not direct workouts. And that the presence of strength and conditioning coach is only to monitor the workout for safety.
The point I’m making is that I’ve seen videos (last summer during discretionary time) on the HA site of beach workouts. From watching the video it shows clearly that the SC coach was leading the workouts. Is this allowable? From what I’ve read from this blog, currently, the SC coach takes the players to workouts on the beach.
I lean towards the student fee. I think the $400-$500 spread over the course the student will be in school AND an alumnus (for the rest of their life) is very reasonable. I think college sports keeps a school in the public spotlight and that is good for the student over the long run as they look for employment or have their jobs reviewed.
Aloha Kakhiaka! Got to spend the day with a classmate of HowLee and Kekoa yesterday. Goodfun!
Liz ~ Now you know the rest of the story. My insanity defense was my salvation.
As for HoweLee, the jury is still out..
Good Morning Gangeez!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Howdy Liz!!! Good Morning NYUH and roysan!
Good morning Tsaikos…hope all have a good one today…
I’m in favor of a fee. I seem to recall paying an activities fee when I was at UH…but I could be wrong.
Hi Kekoa! Wassup (J)J!
Hows errybody doing?
Auwe! I been scare errybody off! 🙁
errybody stay da odda side – dey sked you.
New Post!
Wow…little Abercrombie just scored a big hit to his opponent, Mufi.
I wonder if the big man will punch back and say he will do the same
thing—and more! Eliminate! Eliminate! Eliminate The Stadium
Authority! How’s that for a cheer?
How horrible that UH would want all UH students to contribute to activities that they don’t like or don’t participate in directly! Let’s take this further to the real world. Why should I have to pay taxes for public schools, when I sent all 5 of my kids to a private one? Why should I have to pay the extra GET to pay for the Honolulu rail system (I do, when I buy something from Honolulu) when I live in Hilo? How come we have to subsidize Mass transit – I drive my own car? Why do I have to support a welfare system? And my biggest gripe, why should I have had to support our state’s effort to condemn private Hawaiian trust lands, so some of those same cherished lands could eventually end up in the hands of a billionaire Japanese speculator to turn into slums?
In the real world we all have to support a lot of things from which we get no direct or even objectional benefit. Grow up and and just bear it, or as my sister-in-law often tells my daughters – PUT ON YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES AND DEAL WITH IT!
#214 – You should post this on today’s blog – the new one is up.
Cut n paste.
I like that last phrase.
You simply open a kiosk in the international market place$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Make the students pay,big deal.IF the teams are winners the students will come.
What a great resource!
Fascinating…undoubtedly food for thought. I hope you don’t mind if I pass this on to a few other individuals I know.
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