Should Croson be released from UH?
Many of you read Ferd Lewis’ column yesterday on Croson maybe getting her release and have commented on other threads. My thought was Shoji wanted there to be some consequences for her actions but it seems like she may be doing what she was asked to do by UH now at UofA.
my comment earlier in response to LC saying Shoji was doing a flip flop:
As for Croson, Shoji wanted her to have some consequences for what went on during spring. Not releasing her is one of those. Not like it hasn’t happened with other players. Fonoimoana a prime example. Haley wanted consequences for her not attending class. The difference between the two is Croson is academically eligible to play immediately, Fonoimoana wasn’t when she left USC.
Again, you can say flip flop but I see it as some softening with some time passing to rethink things. And that includes what is in the best interests of Croson. As Ferd wrote, Croson may be doing some of the things at Arizona that UH asked of her but she didn’t do here.
If I’m 20 and embarrassed about how public my situation went, I might have balked at being told I had to meet some criteria, and just didn’t do it because of pride … and embarrassment. Sometimes you dig yourself in so deep, you don’t think there is a big enough shovel. So you just do nothing.
I honestly believe Shoji wanted some sort of consequences for Croson and, if she is doing things at Arizona to show she is moving in the right direction, that might be enough for him to change his mind about the release.
And one way to look at it. Volleyball has defined Croson for so long. To not be able to play this season, just practice could be enough to keep her mired in a negative situation where she never changes. A year is nothing for those of us at our age. It is eternity for someone her age.
I dont like bad behavior being rewarded but I wouldnt mind seeing Hartong taking it to her so I dunno.
I think Hartong will and should stay out of it. Not her decision to make.
She told me it was difficult to talk about it when she was on Leahey & Leahey. I told her she handled it well and was very diplomatic.
and for those who missed Ferd’s column, here it is:
Shoji reportedly considers letting Croson play in ’13
In a few weeks Dave Shoji will become the winningest women’s volleyball coach in NCAA history.
In a few months he might even ride off into the sunset (or nearest golf course) as the most celebrated coach in University of Hawaii annals.
There’s a lot of latitude that comes with 39 seasons and tremendous capital accumulated along with those 1,103 victories and four national championships.
So, if Shoji chooses to dIg in and hold his ground on denying wayward outside hitter Jane Croson a release to play for the University of Arizona this season, his wishes are likely to be honored by UH.
Yet, for all the times Croson has made the hair stand up on the back of his neck and how unpalatable the prospect of her return here on the other side of the net with the Wildcats on Sept. 14 in the Verizon Volleyball Challenge might be, it is testament to Shoji that he is said to be strongly considering granting that waiver.
AS KEENLY competitive and tenacious as Shoji is across most fields of endeavor, there is also an understanding this needs to be about her future more than the burned bridges of the past. There is, hopefully, recognition that while she is lost to UH, it may be in Croson’s best interests to let her move on to something that helps structure a happy ending.
That’s not a distinction a lot of coaches, especially older, accomplished, my-way-or-the-highway ones, make easily. Less so as the season nears, nerves tighten and the authoritarian streak runs deep.
UNDER NCAA rules for volleyball, Croson is free to transfer where she pleases and can even accept a scholarship. What she can’t do, however, is play immediately without a release from UH. The kind the Rainbow Wahine have so far resisted granting while wrestling internally with the decision.
An Arizona spokesman said the issue of whether Croson, who is listed as No. 10 on the Wildcats’ roster, plays this year or redshirts is expected to be decided shortly. And UH holds the key, which means Shoji has a call to make.
For the most part over the years, Shoji has been willing to grant waivers for those who want to leave, seeing it as in the best interests of the program and the players involved.
But you get the feeling that Croson, one-time All-Big West Conference selection and Western Athletic Conference all-tournament pick, touched a nerve or three between the drama of the past year and the way she chose to exit this summer.
FEELINGS apparently ran deep, especially since Shoji and the Rainbow Wahine worked to help Croson through some off-the-court issues last year that had led to suspensions. To their credit, they held the door open for her to return this year, provided she took care of business.
We’re told that if Croson demonstrates she has met many of the same requirements at Arizona that had been laid out for her rejoining the Rainbow Wahine that UH may acquiesce and sign the release.
Sometimes the most telling sign of power is how it is used.
It’s still flip flopping which is why Ben Jay went from hero to a zero with UH fans and he is no longer respect by the majority.It’s a sign of a weak leader.
I meant Hartong taking it to her on the court if they were to play against each other. That be the only reason why Id want Croson released
LC still think you’re off base with that. It’s not weakness to admit you might have misjudged a situation after you thought you had done the right thing. And then make it right.
In Croson’s situation if things have changed and she is taking control of her life, doing the things she needs to do, I see Shoji re-thinking the original decision made months ago in the best interests of a young person.
I don’t think he should. She just did not leave on good terms and I don’t think she should be rewarded for that. Also, I think it might benefit her to take a year off and really get things in order, whatever that may be.
Whether Croson does get a release or not seems to have finally fallen on Dave Shoji’s shoulders for the final word. As for me I’m trusting Dave on this one, he has all the facts of what went on with Croson’s situation and will make the fairest of decision. When the final decision is announced, we should all back Dave up 100% and put it all behind us and never bring it up again.
The more important question on my mind right now is what is Dave’s game plan in beating Texas.
Tough decision for Dave, as Emily H. pointed out, Dave cares for his players both on and off the court. It is refreshing and admirable for someone who’s under the microscope to reflect and consider what is the “right” decision for everyone. As (8) pointed out we should all support Dave’s decision.
don’t believe that shoji should give croson her release for her own good, and not just being vindictive. jane appears to be a lost soul, no one can set her straight except herself; she has to experience the lows and highs so that she can see the “light” and right her ways. she has never followed directions of those in charge, she needs to learn this. she has been too independent and believes only in what she thinks is right for her. this will be a learning experience for her but in the long-run, it will be right one. I know shoji wants to be a nice guy and not hurt people, but this is different, she hurt the team and shoji, and she has hurt others in the past, she needs to learn from this experience.
apologize to everyone still having problems posting. At the moment, whenever I approve something it stays in spam
going to cut and paste 2 of the latest
From innocent observer
don’t believe that shoji should give croson her release for her own good, and not just being vindictive. jane appears to be a lost soul, no one can set her straight except herself; she has to experience the lows and highs so that she can see the “light” and right her ways. she has never followed directions of those in charge, she needs to learn this. she has been too independent and believes only in what she thinks is right for her. this will be a learning experience for her but in the long-run, it will be right one. I know shoji wants to be a nice guy and not hurt people, but this is different, she hurt the team and shoji, and she has hurt others in the past, she needs to learn from this experience.
this from Tako
Tough decision for Dave, as Emily H. pointed out, Dave cares for his players both on and off the court. It is refreshing and admirable for someone who’s under the microscope to reflect and consider what is the “right” decision for everyone. As (8) pointed out we should all support Dave’s decision.
this from Critical Reader
This is a ridiculous proposition. “Tell us whether releasing her would be a good or bad decision, but do so without knowing what she did or didn’t do to lead to her leaving.” What did or didn’t she do? What are ALL the circumstances surrounding whatever she did or didn’t do? Providing answers to those simple questions could lead to meaningful responses. But, those questions have never been answered by the press, which has chosen instead to allude to problems, come up with catch phrases, but never describe objectively what she did or didn’t do to lead to this situation. If you want an opinion from your readers about whether or not a 20 year old college student should be permitted to make mistakes without having their lives ruined, then the answer for me is generally yes, but subject to the severity of what he or she did. If you want an opinion about whether or not a 20 year college student should be able to transfer schools and enjoy all privileges of attending that school (including playing for the new school’s athletics teams), the answer for me is yes, particularly if there is any inkling that the student was unhappy about relationships with coaches or teammates. Should Dave Shoji be given wide berth to decide what to do with a player and the player’s future within the ambit of existing rules? Generally, yes. But he shouldn’t be unfair, and he shouldn’t withhold playing eligibility if he, his remaining players or UH personnel arguably were wrongfully responsible in any way for the student being unhappy. But as to Jane Croson? Who knows? It may be unfair to reveal what Croson’s alleged transgressions were. But, it could also be very, very unfair to open up a discussion concerning whether or not she should be granted consideration without permitting people to render informed opinions. It’s like getting a bunch of people together to have a rumor mongering party.
Thanks Critical
Was asking more for people to respond to what Ferd wrote in case they hadn’t seen it.
don’t believe it’s rumor mongering when the fact is she hasn’t been released. And now may be.
I say absolutely not. We can’t keep spoiling these young athletes. Life’s lesson & this is one of them.
This is a real tough one for me as I am a fan of Croson. I hope she can get her life together. I am sad that things did not work out for her here. As for the decision I feel it is all up to Dave to do what he thinks is right I will support him. Right now I am more excited about the young women we have on the team. I can’t wait for the season to start.
Go na Wahine!!!!!
people are still bitter that she left UH. I say grant her a release. she’s gone and isn’t coming back. let her be happy and if she screws up again, that’ll fall on rubios shoulders.
help Cindy, I’m in spam lost world… my posts have not been posting HELP!
Coach Shoji with all the facts will probably give her the release. I don’t think he is one to hold on to the proposition of withholding a player from transferring. She is a young lady who has made bad choices which she will have to live with. I agree with Cindy that Coach Shoji only wants whats best for his players. I hope Croson finds the path of selflessness and consideration. How does one determine that the majority thinks Ben Jay went from hero to zero. Maybe the majority really doesn’t think that way but I wouldn’t know that either since I’m not sure how to calculate the majority since maybe I’m the minority.
I agree with #10 innocent observer …
When a consequence is handed out and then revoked it sends a message. Were Croson’s issues damaging to the team? Yes. Were Croson’s issues damaging to Shoji? Yes. Were Croson’s issues damaging to the Wahine Sand Team? Yes. Were Croson’s issues damaging to Wong? Yes. Were Croson’s issues damaging to herself? Yes. Were Croson’s issues damaging to those around her? Yes.
A year off of the competition court will do her good and give her “time” to sort through and figure out her life, her athletic career, and her relations with those around her. Putting her back on the court in this short amount of time since she arrived at U of Arizona does not seem like a wise choice for a young girl who many know is a lost soul at this time of her life. Give her time to find herself and develop better habits for herself, her team/teammates and those that surround her with support.
it really doesn’t matter to me if Croson is given her release or not. she will move on, whether she gets the release or not. in fact, she’s moved on already! i would prefer that the issue be put to rest (and a decision on the release be finally made), so that EVERYONE can move on. mostly so that fans (who are so preoccupied with the issue) can move on as well.
Only in Hawaii…… Hey! anywhere else an athlete would transfer, coaches and school decide whether or not to release her based on the information they had and the circumstances and THAT WOULD BE IT. There might or might not be an item in the school paper that the athlete had transferred. Here, the whole state gets involved. The pressure we fans put on 18, 19, 20 year olds is unbelievable. Fans should support the team and coaches and school. That’s our role. Leave the coaching and team decisions to the school and coaches. Enjoy the game, that’s our role as fans. Support the athletes on the team today. That’s our role as fans. Support the staff. That’s our role as fans. Enough already. Go Bows!!!
I hope Jane gets a chance to move forward. I was the lucky recipient of help when I was that age that changed my life and I will always be grateful to the men (coaches) involved who helped me out.
Yes, imo.
AZ is extremely convoluted..more so now.
Snuka, @ 5.6 SHOULD start.
Fab 50 Setter, MBs, OHs
+ 1 OPP & 1 A2 Libero
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this from Cindy Luis
2. Sometimes the most telling sign of power is how it is used.
*Praying for him.
No make her sit. She did not give UH enough time to find a suitable replacement!
The timing of her decision was not all on her, both parties agreed it was going to be made after Spring practice. Shoji was not planning on bringing anyone in before the agreed date.
everyone’s bitter. I’m happy that she’s found a place she can play and I wish her the best of luck
26. Not the case WF. Shoji gave her all of spring to make her decision.
Thank you Mauna for getting to it first. Was at practice
To Mei Mei,
I know. I can’t get your stuff out of spam. It keeps saying Pending.
am working with webmaster to fix it.
and it should be up now, along with the other posts that were stuck
25. P&G. I did not write those words. Those are from Ferd’s column.
Corson had problems before she came got her chance to play for UH. It got to the point where it wasn’t fun for her anymore. She probably needs a good year to think over her priorities instead of hurdling at full speed into another high pressure D-I volleyball team.
Have been refraining from commenting anymore on Jane but agree with posters who say decision is for others to make and us to support. This forum seems to encourage all manner of comments from all sides of issue but that’s okay, not good or a source or path to truth, just okay. I was raised during Disney’s Bambi times “if you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything…” (paraphrasing) so I try not to comment on things that are getting mean or downright spiteful. Jane was a Wahine and chose to move on. It happens and I thank her for her time here and hopes she finds herself and gets to live her future with some dignity and success. We all make ‘mistakes’ but we’re all not under the microscope that is Wahine volleyball. Don’t wish to put too much pressure on young women who don the Green and White (and Black) of Hawaii, just want to cheer and support them. Go Wahine!
“And one way to look at it. Volleyball has defined Croson for so long. To not be able to play this season, just practice could be enough to keep her mired in a negative situation where she never changes. A year is nothing for those of us at our age. It is eternity for someone her age.”
Croson already did a year of sitting out… Her high school senior year, remember?
With Jane, I think they need to make an example of her, since she probably won’t learn unless she has a whole year to think about it. No way she would have fulfilled whatever conditions that Shoji put forth already, since school hasn’t even started at Arizona. If she was skipping classes, then the only way to prove it is to not miss a class for an entire semester. I have a feeling it was a lot more than that, since she even ditched her BF here in Hawaii when she left for Arizona.
33. she did sit out, as a 17-year-old because the school had a zero tolerance policy for ‘violence.’ but her HS coach has said that at many other places, the incident wouldn’t have warranted her and the other player being suspended for the year.
Kaufman kicked a chair during a high school match that made a lot of noise and got noticed. and it led to her missing the state track meet. She came in with a reputation that was somewhat undeserved. The penalty doesn’t always fit the crime. Although I think she would have made a great punter for the football team as I saw her drop-kick a ball from the far baseline into the upper reaches of the SSC seats on the other side.
Not making excuses for anyone’s behavior.
Dave should just grant the release. Teaching her a lesson is no longer his job. If she hasn’t changed, then its up to Rubio to decide if she should play.
Ms. Croson was special, and treated special, given many opportunties by the University and
ultimately Coach Shoji…life has consequences…man up or woman up, Ms. Croson. No
release! She hurt her team mates, Coach Shoji….but ultimately she disappointed us, the
fans of Hawaii.
there was another post (possibly lost in cyber space) mentioning Croson being at ASU. It’s not ASU, it’s U of Arizona
and the same posted questioned whether we should believe what ASU was saying. The way Ferd phrased made it sound like she was doing some of the things. Yes, I would believe it since Rubio and Shoji are very good friends.