Is new Aloha a good buy?
One of the things Hawaii does well is build things.
The Stan Sheriff Center is an undeniable success that is well maintained. The Warrior Recreation Center is the best facility on the Manoa campus. The H-3 is the most picturesque drive in Hawaii. And the Hawaii Convention Center is a wonderful complex.
But except for the Warrior Recreation Center — which probably attracts more students than Hamilton Library — facilities are largely underused.
And therein is the concern as the discussions are reheated once again about replacing Aloha Stadium. “Build it and they will come” was a cute Hollywood phrase. A more practical approach is to figure out the future attractions and then plan to accommodate them. If an NFL exhibition or a Pac-12 membership is a concern then the dream has to go beyond 35,000 seats with the secondary dream of expanding to 40,000. If soccer is really the future, then the surface must be able to accommodate football and futbol. If concerts are the goal, then a whole new architecture crew must be included. And if Indy races are the plan, as it once was several years ago, then there needs to be a parking lot without speed bumps.
Building in Hawaii is usually problematic because of costs, cost overruns, and inconvenience. But projects do get finished, even if they always miss budgets and deadlines. What hasn’t been proven is the ability to make full use after construction is completed.
Foist
What’s up with the weather?
Four days ago, it’s chilly in the morning and everyone is posting temperature photos on Facebook and Instagram.
The past two days, it’s been muggy.
I’ve become one of those old farts who says: “Grandkids, I remember when I was young and we didn’t have iPhones or vog.”
I think 40,000 is a perfect size. Anything lower than that and it just seems the program would be settling for its non-major status and not anticipating or shooting for growth. It has been tough times for the program from the ending of the McMackin and the entire Chow eras with attendance pretty much nearly dropping to the point where HHSAA championship games almost have more. While coach Rolo has had a fantastic first year attendance has not increased as quickly as we have all hoped and that is something that will take time with further success. With the talks of a new stadium, I think the powers at be and also the public are basing what they think the size should be by the current attendance numbers. They’re not thinking to future of what coach and program is shooting for. If he improves has he already has in his first year, the attendance will increase even further. I remember when it was the Sugar Bowl time and UH turned away a big allotment of tickets thinking the demand wouldn’t be there. Of course they were mistaken when demand far exceeded supply. I wouldn’t want to see the same mistake with the stadium.
I don’t know if it is a good buy at that capacity. If UH fails to shrink the student ticket allotment, then there’s only 30,000 seats left for buyers. In almost every Aloha Stadium season except from 2013-present there has been more than a 30,000 average in tickets distributed per game.(and we all know who is at fault for 2013-2015) Also, UH has historically averaged close to 45,000 per PAC-12 home game(including Utah in the old WAC years). It makes absolutely no sense to build that small.
I also hear around that if the stadium is smaller and demand increases that they can raise the price. I’d hate to see them take that route and price out long time loyal fans, and families.
4.
This is a knee jerk reaction where they’re making decision based on the current situation and environment while failing to see future possibilities and consequences.
Must be 35-40,000 seat stadium. Mid-30k average attendance will happen if we return to winning tradition. This is essential for UH athletics financial outlook. 30k seating with temporary expandability only works for the stadium authority … this needs to be more of a partnership between UH and Authority.
I think the biggest reason attendance didn’t pick up this season was the schedule. Starting 1-3 and having the home opening against an FCS school and then struggling to win killed any “new season” excitement that was there. The team picked up some momentum going into the UNLV game but squandered it when they fumbled away a winnable game. After that, there wasn’t any opportunity to build up anymore momentum because of never playing two home games in a row and not winning at home until the last game of the season. Not having two conference games in a row on the road was nice, but not having two conference games at home in a row hurts because the football just seems few and far between for fans. I think next season’s schedule, coupled with the bowl win, will be a better representation of what attendance could be like under Rolo.
ST… good points you mentioned… The problem with state government is that they cannot think beyond 3 years and what are the “future” plans for the stadium. They want someone else to think for them, then complaint later.
Take the SSC, if Mr. Sheriff didn’t fight for the funding to build the current arena, we would have gotten funds to build another Klum Gym.
I wonder if the Stadium Authority are thinking “outside the box” and how to use the new stadium. If we ended up with a 35,000 seat stadium, there will be no NFL and most likely no PAC-12 membership (as ST mentioned). I wonder too if they even thought about traffic in and out of the new stadium.
The legislators too are small minded. If you proposed a new (let say 45,000 seat) stadium that will have an estimated cost $60M (hey, just putting out a figure) with all the stuff needed, the legislators will ask you to cut out some of the stuff (that you would need) to cut cost to say, $20M. And later in the development of you find out you need more funding due to cost of inflation on material (because the project started 4 years later and your estimated cost was based on an earlier time period). At the end, you got all you needed to build a good the stadium and find out that the actual cost was $60M, but the legislators will make it seem that you had a over cost of $40M.
What we really need is good planning, really good planning. Not just some study by a consultant who most likely didn’t talk to the “right” people. Plus, why do we need more condos. We have enough in Kakaako and almost all of us cannot afford them.
Okay… I’m stepping off my soapbox.
Just remember next election to vote for the candidate that fully supports not just the University of Hawaii, but its athletic programs as well. We need a leader like the late and former governor John A. Burns who had a vision and saw it to fruition.
Knowing how things work around here with Hawaii’s government decision makers, they’ll build a 25,ooo seat stadium, request Big Sky admittance and call it a day.
No visionaries in the Hawaii government. They need to look ahead and plan for the future for the primary user of the new facility (UH football) Pac-14/16 is certainly a possibility but not with a 30,000 seat stadium. 40,000 seats expandable to 45,ooo seems about right.
First off, new stadium? Y-E-S!!! Aloha Stadium is a maintenance nightmare, that doesn’t make money consistently 7 days a week. Swap meets, football season, graduations, and occasional events, other than that, Nadal. A smaller stadium, with shops, restaurants, hotel built in would sustain the property and maintenance better consistently. Other than football, we don’t get 1st rate concerts or events anymore. The days of filling up 50,000 seats ato Aloha Stadium for a UH game is pau, pay per view cut into that…
I believe that Ben Jay was the person who asked for the smaller stadium plans. Ben was the small minded and no vision AD who could not come up with a plan to create interest in the football team. His big idea was make a smaller stadium that would be easier to fill, then he could raise prices. The capacity of the new stadium will determine how high our football team and state will be able to shoot for, once built we will be stuck with the stadium’s capacity for the next thirty years. Personally I would like to see at least 43,000 with the potential to add another 8,000 seats. I think bench seats should also be considered, with the seats being marked wider to take into consideration our bigger fans, individual chairs are too expensive to maintain.
WHAT DO THEY MEAN BY “INTIMATE”? SEX?
I think they need a new stadium but:
> Who runs it?
> Where’s UH gonna play while it’s being built?
> Why do they need to wait until a new stadium is built to bring in concerts?
I’m not sure I want intimate seating. And I could do without the intimate troughs
I attended a Aloha Stadium Redevelopment Meeting on 11/16/16 at Aloha Stadium with about 100 other community members.
There were basically 2 sets of plans.
One plan was from the State for a new Stadium.
The other was from the City focusing on redeveloping the rest of the property around Aloha Stadium and the Rail Station.
As far as the Stadium goes, they had a new Stadium seating between 30-40,000 people. The New Stadium would be built closer to the Highway facing Pearl Harbor(where the Parking Lot for Gate 1 is now).
ONE OF WAYS TO MAKE THE STADIUM CHEAPER IS TO USE BENCH SEATING VS. INDIVIDUAL SEATS WITH ARM RESTS. ACTUALLY, THE FACT THAT ALOHA STADIUM HAS SEATS VS. BENCHES ACTUALLY MAKES IT BETTER THAN ANY ALL THE OTHER BIG TIME SCHOOL STADIA IN THE COUNTRY.
15.
Yes 1000x on no troughs. Also bench seating is horrible. Colorado and Wisconsin had that style and if you’re sitting next to someone that is large, it sucks and is very uncomfortable.
Well said guys. Go small and we are admitting we are a small time program. What happens when UH starts winning big time? We going have portable seats at ground level? Like Honolulu Stadium? Tell Josh Pacheco that ” Small Fish in a Big Pond” mentality don’t cut it in Honolulu.
#19 it’s doesn’t matter what kind of seating you have if you’re sitting next to someone that is large, it sucks and is very uncomfortable.
I believe a 40K stadium is what they should shoot for. They can design it for sideline seating with the expansion plans to fill in the end zone seating. Include luxury boxes and other updated amenities and we should be in a great position for conference change and attracting other highly visible sports.
Bench seating is for high school fields. Want a quick way to reduce season tickets? Yeah install bench seating. Been to the Rose Bowl, LA Collesium, Boise Stadium, U. of Colorado stadium all old and all with bench seating. Even the individual seats at the Sugar Bowl in the Superdome were undersized. All very uncomfortable when sitting there for 3 plus hours. Bench seating is a huge no go and would have fans clamoring for the “old days” at the old Aloha Stadium where at least the seating is comfortable. I love my seats at the stadium now and anything less is going backwards and a waste of money. If we do that might as well play all the games at Ching Field.
ST & Tsaiko Blog Dogs:
Anyone can plan for a new stadium because it is only paper work. Not everyone can finance a new stadium because that takes a lot of paper work. With that in mind, money talks and bs walks. I wonder if gambling/lottery would be able to finance what we are dreaming about? In my mind, we need to get financing first. Just like in real life, buy a car? or home? Need money, honey before you can even get in the door.
yup. Legalize gambling and use some of the marijuana tax money.
When I talked to one of the main guys designing the new Stadium(Mainland Guy), I told him that I felt the size should be 40,000 rather than 30-35,000.
He said that a major expense is when they have to build an upper deck.
The drawing that I saw, did not have an upper deck.
I forgot to ask him about what type of seating.
I have been to over a half dozen Stadiums on the Mainland for UH Road Games to some major programs. A lot of them have bench seats. That’s how they pack them in, and it is very uncomfortable.
#24
Most of the challenges we face in Hawaii is due of lack of funding. Too hot classrooms to study in Hawaii schools, buildings falling apart at UH Manoa campus, not enough money to finish rail, inadequate support for UH Athletics from the Legislature, and the list goes on.
I get that taxpayers do not want tax increases, I don’t either. But we should be more open to considering new streams of taxable revenue. We have millions of tourist visiting our beautiful islands each year. How much revenue would a Lottery provide for education, athletics and infrastructure improvements?
Penny-wise…dollar foolish.
I am not saying the state should spend its $1 billion surplus on a new stadium, but I would like to see the money spend on a development that with generate a revenue stream and even maybe a profit to the state. What $1 billion surplus? See http://www.governing.com/topics/finance/tns-Hawaii-Record-1-Billion-Surplus.html
If Arnold Palmer can design a golf course, Rolo can design
the stadium of the future. Cut out the middle man and kick backs
and give the planning stage money to Rolo and the Football dept.
There are a lot of college football stadiums in America, and I think is very important for the planners to discuss the successes that similar projects have had. Condos, hotels, and shopping areas haven’t been central to any college football stadiums I have been at, but that is why they hire experts.
Maybe one of Trump’s son’s can come over and
help to make Hawaii Great Again 🙂
Guud Evening Tsaikos…Bootiful Evening!
If they plan to build a new stadium, no get da kine steel dat oni rust on da outside and no rust inside ok?
Some think a bigger stadium equates to a big time program. Got to remember, the stadium is not going to be built for the UH football program. It’s a state project so they feel it needs to provide for all.
I understand the thinking but high school and UH/college football draws the largest crowds…imho.
I don’t think we can draw a “major league” sports team since we may not have the critical mass to draw enough fans/supporters.
Aloha was designed for all types of sports, football, baseball, soccer and after a while, it couldn’t be configured for baseball. (no rust iron and uneven grade, no can slide da bugga into position.)
If it’s build it and they’ll come….then on the slopes of Makakilo. Use the contour of the parcel to form and support the stadium. Improve in and out. Supply choke parking with t-gate facilities. Me thinks, if you get really good t-gate facilities the families will come.
It’s just minutes from current location. Right next to the freeway and close to the choo choo train. Get one hotel at the new shopping center too.
Anyhoo, just one cent worth of input.
Waiting for new Warriors to be announced! IMUA!
How bad is the old stadium is what we should ask. I like the old stadium. Its spacious, altho the prkg is the pits, Its cool with tradewinds blowing thru. When UH played USC a long time ago I found seats in the north end zone yellow section when the turnstile was around 48000 and found prkng on the medial strip mauka of the stadium (those days we neva got tickets). If the structure is sound then figure out how to put more prkng for better attendance. Only then I might plan to go once again
1 Billion dollar surplus? Nice!
I think majority of those funds are earmarked for a specific purpose. Plus, by the end of union negotiations, the state will hardly have enough money for University of Hawaii athletics. Besides, the state could just say to UH, we already gave you X dollars. You need to spend it wisely. After the Wonder blunder and the Arnold contract fiasco, who can blame the state.
But, if UH can get the additional funds for the travel subsidies to help pay for opposing team travels to Hawaii, then that would help free up money for other needs in the atheltic department. After all, Hawaii football does bring in money for the state and for the school. They just have too many mouths to feed within the athletic department.
I just hope the new stadium has green seats instead of blue or yellow.
Can’t we get plans from other stadiums that are or will be built instead of hiring research committee after committees after committees to look into whatever. That alone will cost millions. At least we can save money from buying plans. Of course, the state will hire a committee to look into what plans we will use, etc.,etc., etc….
Average attendance in 2006, 36,588; 2007, 43,514, 2008, 41,010. Then in 2009, it was 36,721 and 2010, 37,311. 2010 was a good year in terms of W-L record, 10-4 ( 7-1 conference) . 2006 was 11-3 and 2007 was the Sugar Bowl team.
Will we ever reach 40,000 again ?
We need visionaries not blind bean counters.
islandman #37, on top of those numbers you need to keep in mind that we went through the worst economic crisis in recent times between 2008 and 2011. Those numbers are outstanding considering the record number of bankruptcies, and foreclosures. Even with Aloha Airlines closing shop for commuter passengers.
#5 – you would hate to see that but you’re going to have to pay now or pay later.
#13 – Ben Jay, and for that matter, Dave Matlin, have a job to do, and that’s to make the most money from football. The way to do that is to sell out the stadium and charge Oceanic or whomever they are now for PPV, or charge Blangiardi a huge sum for free TV.
#15 – ST, it depends whether they build on current site or on campus. If they build at current site, they build it on the parking lot and keep using the old stadium until the new stadium is done. The only catch is that your press parking pass will be at Target.
Personally, I don’t want to see thousand of seats that *might* be used 6 or 7 times a year or *might* attract an NFL exhibition game to be built.
Temporary or permanent…
Put this in Pearl Harbor near where the stadium already is.
This is in Singapore.
https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=singapore+floating+stadium&client=lightning&prmd=imnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwib0MzEi8HRAhVJv48KHV8eCFIQ_AUIBygB
So, let me get this straight…
A new stadium, regardless of size, is going to be built where the existing stadium is not…which means the existing stadium could be used for games during the construction of a new one. Wherever it is built, that means a lot of the existing parking spaces will be constructed upon…or needed for staging equipment and materials.
The disturbing aspect is not just the vehicle parking spot loss, but the tailgates that happen there. How many people go to the stadium for a game and not go to a tailgate? Tailgates come in many sizes, but it is a social gathering and meal. I have often said that in the old days of high attendance, many people came for the tailgates–esp. in years when the team was not doing well. After the tailgate, the non-season ticket holders usually went to buy a ticket, rationalizing that they were there already and always get chance for win…
Doesn’t matter how many alternative parking sites are created, without the parking spaces for tailgates, the attendance will drop. Revenue and the preferred parking surcharges UH receives will drop. Revenue for the swap meets will also take a hit as fewer vendors and fewer shopper parking will be available.
My rant is that parking space for events (and tailgates) and swap meets should be considered. Lack of parking space will be a self-fulfilling prophesy of only needing a 30,000 seat stadium.
OK, I admit that after 50 years, I keep going to the stadium mostly for the great Tsai-ko tailgates. But when fans of my generation eventually pass into PPV heaven, is there a next generation? Small stadiums that are inconvenient to attend doe not help.
Bench seating? Are you crazy? Us old guys won’t be able to stand up. Sore back, it’s like going to the Merrie Monarch Festival.
At least, 40,000 seats and no less. Must be a UH, stadium and operated by students…all clean up by OCCC. Must be built on the ala wai…golf course is history. Parking at kapiolani park and diamond head. Go for it!
Build it at Ala Wai
The biggest problem with the stadium seats is they don’t make them anymore. But that’s what happens when you try to find parts for 40-year-old car.
I think it’s highly unlikely it’ll cost 50 percent more to repair the stadium than to build a new one. So here’s the deal: whoever gets the contract should be personally responsible if costs go more than 25 percent over budget. If construction owner bids $200 million and it costs $300 million, then he and his descendents will be on thee hook until the $49,999,999.99 is recouped. Then we’ll get a real price.
Seats. Broken seats. Just close a section or two in the yellow section and cannibalize the seats.
Hey! Why just build a smaller cover stadium! And all kinds of events in it besides sports!. Because, I’ve been hearing so much SOB. You guys have to understand that? Aloha Stadium can be bad looking. But look around the other states. Plus the Mountain West Conference!. A lot’s of teams don’t have what Hawaii have!. 1. Sam Boyd’s Stadium? It’s a high school stadium and a division two conferences stadium. I would all you in Hawaii to sit down for 60 minutes of football in a 105° to 115° seat?. I don’t think so!. Like at San Jose State, UNR, Utah State and others from the Mountain West. Because lot’s of them were in the Big West Conference. When their had a football program. And were in the FCS small conference Universities. If Hawaii joined with the PAC- 12 or Conference USA. They got to make it bigger. I can see right now? That University of Hawaii football program should be taken out from the Mountain West and joined in with Conference USA teams!. Because look what their did to Middle Tennessee, Louisiana Tech, SOUTH and others too! University of Hawaii football program should stop playing with little boys school’s!
If it hasn’t been said, this time – – – build it out of concrete !
The first little piggy built it out of wood – then get termites.
The second little piggy built it out of steel – then get rust.
The third little piggy ought to build it out of pre-stressed concrete.
… and if it going to last, then MORE seats than the last one.
All sounds good – building a new stadium – but not going to happen due to lack of funds. I would love to see a modern 45,000 seat stadium on-campus or on the Ala Wai (Baylor downsized their new stadium), but there are too many other pressing needs such as crumbling buildings on the UH campus, no ACs in public schools, homeless, lack of affordable housing, etc. Hell, just the other day I went into a public restroom at Kapiolani Park to use the lua, and the urinal was ripped out of the wall. What kine dis? Besides, everyone no like sit on Honolulu stadium style bleachers again. Maybe a stadium with premium back seats between the 30 yard lines? Now, if UH could garner the financial support of an individual or corporate sponsor, something like “Bank of Hawaii Stadium” or “Hawaiian Air Stadium” than maybe “can.”
Keep it simple, but modern:
UCF’s 40K stadium:
https://cbshartford.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/ucf-central-florida-knights-football-getty-sam-greenwood.jpg
Utahs Rice-Eccles (45,000) :
http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/utah-rice-eccles-stadium-richard-greene.jpg
been to the Horseshoe and Big House
Michigan’s stadium will hold up to 110,000 fans — best part it’s a single “walled” stadium with only one tier — just a big, elongated bowl
we had seats in row 92 and closer to the field than the yellow section at Aloha Stadium
yes, multi-level stadiums cost bookoo bucks — why not a large one level stadium for Hawaii to seat 50,000 fans
biggest problem for Hawaii is the lack of foresight on the continued use of the facility year round — not only for football — too many politicians are salivating on the idea that the “rail station” will create a “mini” community nearby to revive Halawa
Singapore built clusters of mini-cities with multiple high rise structures — you can live and work in this community — walk to work and play.
and, the unions, if they want to continue to thrive, need to look beyond “profits” to help build the stadium — admittedly or not, they drive up the cost.
You do have to look any further than Martin Stadium in Pullman WA to find a similar stadium to build. It looks like a fair simple one tier (no upper deck) and fits 35000. Funny how WSU manage to stay in the PAC 12 with such a small stadium. I bet UH is looking at them and maybe follow their blueprint.
Their luxury boxes area is kind of big. Maybe no need that many luxury boxes and save a few bucks but if we dream of PAC 12 then maybe we can follow WSU.
https://www.google.com/search?q=capacity+of+martin+stadium&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari&dlnr=1&sei=EWl6WOvmGMnQ0gKLr7eoBA#dlnr=1&fid=0x549f871b41073ec1%3A0xe784387329b90e37&fpstate=luuv&imagekey=!1e1!2shttps%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F8%2F82%2FMartin_Stadium_Washing_State_University.jpg&viewerState=ga
I meant to say …..you DON’T have to look further….
The grass may be greener for UW and WSU, but they apparently use more fertilizer …
“Washington State’s athletics department has reported deficits of about $13 million in each of the last two fiscal years, while UW’s athletics department projected a deficit of about $15 million for the 2016 fiscal year, but that figure was later updated to about a $7 or $8 million deficit. Last year, new WSU President Kirk Schulz also proposed a plan that he believes will get WSU’s athletic department solvent by 2019.” … http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/wsu-cougar-football/senator-proposes-bill-to-give-legislature-oversight-over-insolvent-college-athletic-departments/
By agreeing to a smaller venue say 30k,
Yes it will have its intimacy.
Smell of new paint.
However, to compensate some potential loss of revenue don’t be shocked when prices start escalating immediately.
Al:
You’re right. Sliding scale.
Plus, the lawmaker who is the 35,001st person to want a ticket to a UH-Boise State game better not complain.
New post: http://hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=41058