Hawaii drops to No. 7 in poll, stays at 32 in volleyball RPI
Minnesota 21-3 up to No. 1.
Stanford trades place with Wahine at 6-7
Florida lost again! Cannot help Hawaii’s RPI.
Yep I thought they would move up a little beating Long Beach St., but oh well?
#85 (ruffles) Traveling with the team doesn’t make me a better fan but you need to watch your judgements of the bloggers whichever way negative or positively they blog. I am not a SNOB and would have the pleasure to meet you. We care about this team for many years and we all can agree to disagree but please watch who you are judging. It is easy to say what you say behind a computer. I can man-up and say what I feel in front of any one.
Well, there goes that. Hawaii has no shot if they are in the 30s… jeez.
Wait so Hawaii wins this weekend but drops in the poll?! this is so ridiculous, i refuse to try and understand any of it anymore
3. they were 32 last week as well.
4. all about where the points fall. no way to predict that.
Hawaii drops from 6 to 7 in AVCA Coaches Poll also. Stanford leapfrogged us….
#2 c,mon man you initiated making it personal by calling me out, I did not pick on anyone person individually just the overall negativity, and reading your blogging would not have put you in that category anyway. You are obviously very up on volleyball knowledge and a great fan. But it was just my opinion and mines alone, sorry it got to this, but we are all just fans! GO BOWS!
5. Yeah there was only 7 points separating us last week…..
Ruffles and BC, please end this now. if you want to continue, take it to another forum.
As for the poll, Hawaii and Stanford trading place was the only movement in the Top 10.
What would be nice, even though it won’t happen, is for the NCAA committee to compare the poll with the computer. and see how the coaches are pretty on it in regards to the RPI except where Hawaii is concerned. BTW Arkansas State dropped to 22 and Long Beach State down to 53.
in regards to the Top 10 poll vs. RPI
1. Penn State … 5
2. USC … 2
3. Washington 7
4. Minnesota 1
5. Texas 3
6. Stanford 12
7. Hawaii 32
8. Nebraska 8
9. UCLA 10
10. Kansas 6
Seems like the other team that will have the biggest gripe over UHs RPI rating would be the ranked team that has to host them in the sub regional. They’ll pretty much have a regional semi/ regional final type match already in the 2nd round
Can imagine what their coach thinks when they see UHs logo show up in their bracket on the selection show
Sorry Cindy and bc, never meant to make it personal, my apologies specially since we on the same team, go bows
I already know Hawaii won’t be hosting a sub-regional. However, I’m hoping the NCAA puts us in a “good” region (like Texas’ or Florida’s) as a reward for their outstanding season.
How would those be good regionals? I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t want the team to be flown all the way to Florida to play the gators again on their home court. Nor would I want them to go Texas.
The only relevant issue is winning the conference, which is something they can control.
I for one hope Ruffles and BC heed Cindy’s advice because you both enhance the blog with you comments and opinions. On another subject, I would like to go back to what Kathy Gregory said about Hawaii. She said they have all the talent they need to win it all but that they seem to be lacking that “killer” instinct to put their opponent away when they get the chance. I think she has a point but I have observed that we seem more aggressive each time out. I think this team is finally figuring out that they are very good.
Kudos, ruffles, on the extended hand (13).
My apologies to Cindy and Ruffles too…I read too much into it…Pls forgive me? On the other hand we (the team) can settle the score of the Ranking and RPI gurus proving to the country we are for REAL on the road during Postseason….
Take care of business one point, one set, one match at a time. If they are the true champions each of here believe them to be, they will continue to do it, one step at a time, despite where they are playing and who they’re playing. Teamwork, determination, guts and a killer instinct will all pay off in big dividends for the Wahine. And a national championship banner will be theirs to unfurl proudly at the Stanley at the start of the 2016 season.
9. It is worth noting that LBSU’s unadjusted RPI fell to 51 (adjusted fell to 53). This means that UH lost out on bonus points for two wins against LBSU. Had LBSU remained in the top 50 unadjusted RPI as they were last week, UH would have moved up to 30th in the RPI rankings. So besides rooting for UH, everyone should also root for LBSU to win the rest of their matches and regain a top 50 unadjusted RPI ranking. That will give UH bonus points it needs to improve its own RPI ranking. Odds are against hosting a subregional, but the door isn’t shut yet.
Big West TV picked up But Seriously on UH’s Senior Night.
Glad to see everyone getting along. Much more fun when we debate without making it personal. Kudos, guys!
10. Cindy, it just amazes me that someone on the NCAA committee doesn’t look at that list and say, “This top 10 list doesn’t look right. Hawaii’s #7 in the poll and 32 in the RPI?!?”
BTW, no weekly honor for a Wahine this week. Magill nominated for POW and Kahakai for DPOW. Went to Peric of UCR and Bolko of Davis, respectively.
10,23. Comparing the two rankings could very well lead the NCAA committee to conclude the RPI is an accurate predictor of team quality given a 90% similarity between rankings except for UH, and therefore there is no reason to change the importance of RPI in seeding. Rather, UH should schedule tougher. Moreover, they can use how voters behave (generally, if a team wins, it rises, and if a team loses, it falls, all other things being equal) to explain how a team in the weak Big West is ranked in the top 10. Now if you have a lot of lower RPI ranked teams in the AVCA top ten, then that would get the committee scratching its heads. But one anomaly won’t.
25. Too true Maverick. They wouldn’t scratch their heads over the 10% anomaly and would continue to use the RPI as is. But it should still make them sit up and go “hmmmmm”, lol!
25 .or they could conclude that there is a flaw in certain cases regarding the non-Power 5 schools. Easy to say they should schedule tougher when the fact is they schedule who they can get, who will travel here or aren’t bothered as much by the Big West RPI dragging down their RPI. Going on the road is not the answer either for the good of the program and athletic department monetarily. They already are the most traveled team in the country. What they might get as a guarantee for a road tournament doesn’t cover travel costs nor make up for what a home tournament generates.
Anyway, for those who haven’t been keeping up on former Wahine Keani Passi, she was named PacWest player of the week in helping Chaminade go 3-1 on the road.
She averaged 4.56 kills per set while hitting .344 while getting double-doubles in all four matches. She had 19 kills each against Dominican, Notre Dame de Namur and Holy Names and in a sweep versus Academy of Art on Saturday had 16 kills and 13 digs with a .517 hitting percentage.
21. We should not only be rooting for LBSU to win out but ALL the teams we have played against this year since the SOS accounts for 75% of the RPI calculation…
27. Completely agree with you Cindy regarding the people that keep commenting that “Hawaii needs to schedule tougher”. The problem with the RPI system is that it’s not really a rating system designed to measure how strong a team is. It’s designed to measure your SOS and therein lies the defect in using the RPI. Teams from so called “lower” conferences will always be penalized RPI wise no matter what. You can completely obliterate all the teams in your conference and if your conference is weak RPI wise your RPI will drop…..
Olivia Magill should have made POW. She hit .556 (with only one error!) for the weekend against two of the better teams in our conference AND on the road no less. Nothing against Peric but her stats came against two of the worst teams in conference and also one of those wins was at home…..
Does anyone know the individual national rankings for our 2016 Wahine recruits?
-Norene Iosia (5’11” Setter) California/Redondo Union HS
-Kirsten Sibley (6’2″ Outside) California/Campolindo HS
-Emma Smith (5’8″ Libero) California/Mira Costa HS
Also any national recognition for…2017 recruit
-Shaney Lipscomb (6’1″ Middle/Opposite) California/La Jolla HS
wasnt the rpi invented by no clue at all similar of the fpi (football percentage index) or something else ludicrous? perhaps no more grumbling about it including the scheduling ‘too tough’ (of course that bakersfield thing was funny too.) instead somebody can sue to ncaa and make them forfeit their football bowl sports money, then there you go.
27,29. All this is getting old and tired. You don’t know how aggressive the staff is in scheduling the toughest teams. You assume the teams that come are the best possible, and I don’t believe that. You can always do better. Bakersfield? Come on, be serious.
And teams won’t be concerned with Big West RPI dragging down their RPI because (1) conference RPI doesn’t factor into an opponent’s RPI, to be exact, and (2) any impact from UH playing Big West opponents is outweighed by UH’s stellar won-loss record, which is 50% of an opponent’s RPI score.
And UH has gone on the road before in the preseason (2 years ago) and it can do so again. It is a matter of prioritizing and getting boosters/donors on board for support. When the NCAA allowed stipends, you didn’t see a lot of complaining at UH about its financial competitive advantage, you saw action and a major donation. And the WVB program shouldn’t always be so accommodating in doing what is good for the department, but sometimes demand that the athletic department invest in a perennial post-season program.
Unless you are going to lead a major effort to change the committee’s seeding criteria, all of this is unproductive. I’ve been part of lots of change management in organizations and you always hear the same thing…we can’t do this, we can’t do that, we’ve tried everything, we’ve done the best possible. Funny how often change happens when new ideas, focus and effort are brought to bear.
UH is saddled with a geographic disadvantage, a financial disadvantage, and a conference SOS disadvantage. So do we just give up? It is what it is? What’s your solution?
29. Thank you for regurgitating what I’ve written several times this year about the RPI.
Assuming Iosia red-shirts, she and Koelsch will compete in 2017. Sibley is another probable red-shirt. Not surprised if Lipscomb and Smith play 4 years.
33.Maverick, you play with the cards you’re dealt; just like Dave has done over the past 41 years. Oh, we’ve had our chances in the past and even hosted, but we really didn’t have the overall talent, height and depth we do now. Yeah, they’re still a little inconsistent, but I think we’ve got a better chance to go past round 1 this time. What else can you do? Complaining about it and thinking that all you gotta do is wave a magic wand will fix our problems? Nope, gotta back to reality and play hard and smart. GO BOWS!
So do you know their individual national rankings?…I think I saw someone say Iosia is ranked 4th best server in the nation…not sure about the rest.
36. Not sure how this applies to my post 33, but your views, along with Cindy’s and Hapa’s, are always welcome, even if I disagree.
31,37. According to AVCA, Iosia is only honorable mention.
Wow, Stanford is getting two 6’6″ freshmen. Height is expected in a middle, but a 6’6″ setter? In an embarassment of riches, Stanford gets two First Team setters for 2016. Will they start this class with a 6-2 offense?
That Iosia is ranked in the bottom echelon is disappointing. Perhaps she’ll prove the AVCA coaches wrong when her career starts under Robyn.
Thank you for the list, Maverick.
40…For real a 6’6″ Setter at Stanford. If she can set, that will really change the dynamics for them and every opponent. What a potent offense and block from a player that could be bigger than her OH and Middles..What a threat with the dump shot or turn around kill from her….That is so Amazing!!!
What about Sibley and Lipscomb….looked all around and can’t find anything on them…Are they nationally ranked or getting nationally recognized in any way?
Maverick @33 wrote: “And UH has gone on the road before in the preseason (2 years ago) and it can do so again. It is a matter of prioritizing and getting boosters/donors on board for support. … And the WVB program shouldn’t always be so accommodating in doing what is good for the department, but sometimes demand that the athletic department invest in a perennial post-season program.”
When one of the most successful D1 coaches of all time cannot get support from the AD/UH Regents with regard to Maverick’s points, do we think that this will change for the better for Shoji’s successor?
“So do we just give up? It is what it is? What’s your solution?”
I believe that Shoji is the solution. With the time that remains in his career, could he not change the mindset that, for example, schedules a Bakersfield for additional SSC income rather than pay the price to go on the road? If we happen to sweep our November 2015 opponents, we can thank our lucky stars. It’s unrealistic to both wish that the BWC gets tougher and expect to win another November 2015-like schedule. It’s bad enough that we have no traveling partner.
Perhaps the change that Shoji makes in the mindset of the powers-that-be during the next two-three-? years will be his lasting legacy.
After Coach Shoji made the request that more UH fans should be following our nonconference opponents and cheering for them, I put together their results. For some reason, the “moderator” rejected my post (which I posted early Monday morning on this thread). I am reposting, but halving the post so it’s easier to absorb. Enjoy.
(An * in front of the school indicates a good week for that team. As you can see, there are far too many tap outs at a point of the season when NO TAP OUTS should be allowed.)
*American (24-6, 15-0 PLC) … This week: 11/6 W over Lehigh … 11/7 W over Colgate …. Concludes regular conf. season 11/13 against Loyola Maryland …. Standings: American is the solid pick to win the Patriot League Championship (top 4 of the league’s 9 teams will qualify) on 11/21~22.
CSU Bakersfield (10-14, 8-4 WAC) … This week: Disaster (beep) and double disaster (beep-beep) for the Roadrunners … 11/5 LOST to WAC leader New Mexico St (23-5, 12-0) … 11/7 LOST to UTRGV … Bakersfield dropped into a 3-way tie for 2nd with Utah Valley and Seattle U … Concludes regular conf. season 11/12 Missouri-Kansas City and 11/14 Chicago St … Standings: Bakersfield’s only chance to get into the NCAA Championship is to win the WAC Tournament (top 6 teams of the 8-team WAC will participate) but Lobos remain the overwhelming fav to claim the crown on 11/19~21.
Eastern Washington (14-11, 9-5 Big Sky) … This week: Disaster strikes & strikes again … 11/5 LOST to Northern Arizona … 11/7 LOST to Idaho … Concludes regular conf. season 11/12 N. Colorado and 11/14 N. Dakota … Standings: E. Washington, which before the week started was atop the 6-team North Division, dropped to 2nd in the North Division (behind Idaho) and to 5th overall in the 2-division conf. … Northern Arizona (23-4, 13-1) and Idaho St (19-9, 11-3) of the stronger South Division are expected to be the top two contenders in the Big Sky Tournament (participants are the top 8 teams regardless of division standings) on 11/19~21.
Florida (18-5, 10-4 SEC) … This week: 11/6 W over Mississippi St … 11/8 LOST to Auburn (Gators first defeat at the hands of Auburn in the Mary Wise era) … Next: 11/13 Alabama, 11/15 Tennessee, 11/20 LSU, 11/22 Texas A&M, 11/27 LIU-Brooklyn … Standings (13-team SEC, which does not have a conference tournament):
1. Kentucky (11-2)
2. Texas A&M (10-2)
3. Missouri (9-3)
4. Florida (10-4)
*Idaho (13-13, 10-4 Big Sky) … This week: 11/5 W over Southern Utah …. 11/7 W over Eastern Washington … Concludes regular conf. season 11/12 North Dakota and 11/14 Northern Colorado … Standings: Big Sky Tournament is 11/19~21, and Vandals’ only chance to get an invite to the Big Show is to win the Big Sky Tournament (see Eastern Washington above).
Iowa (12-15, 2-12 Big Ten) … This week: 11/4 W over Maryland …. 11/7 LOST 2-3 to Purdue …. Quote of the Week from UI head coach Bond Shymansky: “We’ve been doing such a great job throughout this part of our Big Ten schedule. . . . For us to push a team like Purdue to a fifth set on their homecoming night — I was so impressed and excited for our group.” . . . Next: 11/11 Penn St, 11/14 Wisconsin, 11/18 Ohio St, 11/21 Northwestern, 11/25 Maryland, 11/28 Michigan St … Standings (14-team Big Ten does not have a conference tournament and is on target to sending a record number of teams to The Dance):
1. Minnesota (13-1)
2. Penn St (12-2)
3. Nebraska (11-3)
4. Wisconsin (10-4)
5. Ohio St (9-5), Purdue (9-5)
7. Illinois (8-6)
Oregon St (5-19, 3-11 Pac-12) … This week: 11/6 W over California… 11/8 LOST to Stanford (0-63 all time against Cardinals) … Beavers BOAST THE NATION’S 5th-TOUGHEST STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE, but can they boast of their current 141 RPI? … Next: 11/12 USC, 11/15 UCLA, 11/18 Washington, 11/20 Washington St, 11/25 Arizona, 11/27 Oregon.
*San Diego St (8-18, 4-8 MWC) … This week: 11/5 W over Fresno St … 11/7 W over UNLV … Next: 11/12 Boise St, 11/14 Utah St, 11/21 San Jose St, 11/24 Nevada … Standings: Colorado St (21-3, 14-0) leads the 11-team Mountain West, and since this league doesn’t have a conference tournament, San Diego St has a 0% chance of postseason play.
*UCLA (20-4, 11-3 Pac 12) … This week: 11/4 W over Oregon … 11/6 W over Utah … Next: 11/12 Oregon, 11/15 Oregon St, 11/20 Arizona St, 11/22 Arizona, 11/25 USC, 11/27 Stanford … Standings (Pac-12 does not have a conference tournament and will not be matching its record-number teams in last year’s NCAA Championship:
1. USC (13-1)
2. Washington (12-2)
3. UCLA (11-3), Stanford (11-3)
5. Arizona St (7-7)
6. Arizona (6-8), Colorado (6-8), Oregon (6-8)
Wichita St (21-7, 12-2 MVC) …This week: 11/2 UPSET LOST to Southern Illinois … 11/6 W over Drake … 11/7 W over Northern Iowa … Next: 11/13 Loyola, 11/14 Bradley, 11/20 Southern Illinois, 11/21 Evansville … Standings: Shockers should win the 10-team Missouri Valley Conference’s regular season but the all-important MVC Tournament on 11/26~28 determines which school will get the automatic bid to SHOWTIME!
I think UH needs to stop making excuses and go out on the road in preseason, wahine basketball does it, so does softball and soccer, beach volleyball etc.
If they do so and win , their rpi will be in much better position to get seeded and host it happened in 2013.
hey maverick since you do rpi things. just for inquisitiveness, what would uhs rpi be now if both bakersfield matches never existed but instead was replaced with d2 opponents (ie hpu, chaminade, byuh.)
@33 Thank you for stating what goes through my mind every time I see someone saying that Shoji does the best he can with scheduling and it is what it is (while complaining about RPI.) That’s like saying we are screwed and we just have to face it. I am a huge Wahine fan and that attitude is just frustrating. The scheduling could definitely be better.
Instead of playing Bakersfield twice, we could have gone to a tournament or played on the mainland which really could have meant the difference in being seeded and hosting. Any revenue lost from those ridiculous matches against Bakersfield would have been made up by hosting later. (yes, I get that Shoji thought Bakersfield would be better but playing a mediocre WAC team — and a Ca. one at that — is not the answer to RPI and will most likely always be a drain on RPI.) There are plenty of conferences besides the top 5 ones that will have conference winners and runner-ups with a schedule of mostly non-west teams. Hawaii needs to play those teams either here or there. The benefit of hosting and doing better in the post-season as a result of hosting would be worth it.
I also agree with Maverick that teams WANT to play Hawaii because Hawaii is great for any other team’s RPI despite playing in the BW. The benefit of Hawaii’s winning record far outweighs any negative from the BW conference.
I just don’t understand the “there’s absolutely nothing at all we can do but complain” approach to this ongoing RPI problem. Other teams have mastered the art of gaming RPI — a little more thought and effort in this area by Hawaii would go a long way. I can’t believe that schedule was the absolute best that could be done if Shoji was actually taking RPI into account when scheduling. I get the feeling the schedule is just done with a thought that they will just let the RPI chips fall where they may and hope for the best. IMO, that does a disservice to the program.
Anyway, maybe Shoji is still learning the RPI game the hard way. It is complicated. Live and learn. Let’s see how they schedule next year….
47. Assuming UH beats the D2 opponents, the results are not factored into UH’s RPI. Only D1 opponents are factored in, unless there is a loss to a D2 team.
Last month (10/8), I asked John McGinn to run the scenario that there was no Bakersfield on the schedule, just a bye week, and at the time, UH’s RPI went up from 36 to 29. And Bakersfield’s RPI went down from 175 to 195 (clearly, having the results of four Big West matches on UH’s schedule, including Fullerton’s, were outweighed by UH’s great won-loss record). McGinn publishes an RPI estimator that has been accurate this year: http://ncaastats.figstats.net/volleyball-rpi.cgi
46. Thx for making that point, which I hadn’t considered. Are we to assume the other programs that travel aren’t taking the good of the overall athletic department into consideration? Lol.
My point on travel is very practical. One, road record is an evaluative consideration of the NCAA seeding committee. Wouldn’t it be nice to see wins against non-Big West teams in that criterion? Two, if you can’t get top RPI/AVCA teams to travel to UH, then go travel to play them. Again, I like the idea of a tourney at Wichita State with Creighton and Kansas, three very good RPI teams (yes, I can still dream).
42. It was mentioned in August on this blog by someone that Sibley just missed the top 100 senior aces list. That person referred to chatter on VT.
I am a Klummer (yes, I played in Klum Gym in a couple of tournaments hosted by the UH men VB team) and have been a fan of Dave and his Wahine teams since back when.
But all this talk of standings, RPI, scheduling, and “what if’s” and “dis and dat” are meaningless as we have absolutely no control over the powers that be.
To be the best, we need to beat the best so I say, bring it on. One match at a time.
We all know the Wahine is a team to be reckoned with and the formula is there to make a good run in the tournament.
LET’S GO BOWS.
52. The problem is that UH isn’t playing the best this year, not even close. That’s why all of the “meaningless” discussion.
Don’t know about her ranking, but Emma Smith just got an award from The Daily Breeze for Mira Costa’s win over Redondo Union.
Norene is also one of three setters on the MaxPreps Volleyball Player of the Year watch list, so she could be a top three setter.
47,49. Update directly from McGinn, who reads this blog from time to time. To answer isles’ question, McGinn writes:
Through games of November 9th:
If the 2 Bakersfield games were removed, and Hawaii had a bye week, Hawaii would be #30 in the RPI.
If the 2 Bakersfield games were replaced with 2 Div II victories, Hawaii’s RPI would be #32, as it is now.
The difference here is that Hawaii currently has 11 non-conference games, with 5 opponents in the top 75 unadjusted RPI. If the Bakersfield games are removed completely, and not replaced, Hawaii has 9 non-conference games, and those 5 opponents under 75 unadjusted RPI gives the double bonus to Hawaii. But, adding the Division II opponents puts Hawaii back at 11 non-conference games and the double bonus is removed.
I don’t track any games against non-Division 1 opponents as the only affect it has is on the very few teams (mostly HBCU’s) that either lose to the Division 2 teams, or the non-conference percentage causes issues. (Butler, for instance, beat a Division 2 team, and their noncon schedule slightly suffers because they have 6/13 instead of 6/12 in the top 75 unadjusted RPI.). Also, if you lose to a Division 2 school, that is automatically in the “bad-loss” double penalty category.
37. Iosia is the #21 senior ace.
#57. Yes, and there are two higher ranked setters (not including Plummer, who is a RS/S).
I think it would be unfair to compare Wahine volleyball scheduling with basketball, softball, beach volleyball, and soccer since they’re either non-revenue producing sports, or they hardly produce any revenue at all. Wahine volleyball generates enough income to be a self-sufficient sport at UH which lessens the burden on us taxpayers since that’s where UH gets their money from. I applaud Dave for his efforts, and understand completely why he schedules a heavily home-based schedule in the pre-season. He’s not going to always get the quality teams over to the islands for whatever reason but he tries his best with what resources he has. Like a poster said earlier, “In order to be the best, you got to play they best.” Whether it’s at the SSC or on the road, just be ready to play your A+ game every game. Go Wahine!!
This is way off topic but I just watched part of video where Emily Hartong is playing on a Korean team. When did that happen? Was nice watching her play.
60. mentioned quite a while ago that Hartong was in Korea.
As for the RPI … perhaps Shoji hasn’t figured out how to ‘game the system’ but that still doesn’t mean he can get those teams who would help ‘game it ‘s come out here. He scheduled who he scheduled, thinking they’d be better than they ended up being. Bakersfield for 2 because that was who was able to come out during that week.
The Big West coaches have discussed trying to get everyone to upgrade their schedules but doesn’t mean they can afford to or will.
That comes into play obviously. But UH has no control over how their opponents schedule, or the outcomes of those matches.
new thread up for Tuesday
Iosia is going to make the volleyball fans in Hawaii happy for a long time. She has the same potential as Robyn and it doesn’t matter where she was ranked because she is gooooood! Soft hands, betters the pass, great server, good blocker, coach on the court, humble demeanor, and Hawaiian family connections.