Comments on: Hawaii up to 23 in poll, 4 Wahine earn 1st team BWC honors https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/ Thu, 04 Dec 2014 02:25:38 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: OrbitalRipZ https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/#comment-2580081 Thu, 04 Dec 2014 02:25:38 +0000 http://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=26393#comment-2580081 ~~ Final Word On The Boring Subject of RPI ~~

Even though the NCAA Selection Committee says that the RPI is just one of many many tools used to seed teams — and thus the predictive system for the NCAA Championship Tournament results — the RPI is the MAIN seeding criterion. Period.

The NCAA has its own reasons for continuing to use a ratings system that does not account for home/away/neutral matches OR sets won/lost OR margin of victory. One of those stated reasons, however, should not and cannot be its predicted accuracy.

The net is overloaded with abstracts on the topic of RPIs — no doubt a lot of students have gotten their Masters writing their thesis on the controversial subject. For students who are thinking of doing a final exam paper on the subject, the following link is a good place to start (involves soccer but same smell):

https://sites.google.com/site/rpifordivisioniwomenssoccer/rpi-strength-of-schedule-problem

‘Nuff said.

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By: Cubicle1126 https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/#comment-2579931 Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:57:17 +0000 http://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=26393#comment-2579931 cindy — the NCAA came up with the formula for the RPI. they’ve been using it for the basketball tournament since the ’80s. and have slowly applied it to other sports (like volleyball, softball, soccer, etc), whether appropriate or not.

since then, other metrics have emerged that from a statistics standpoint is proven to be a better measure of the “strength” of a team (for lack of a better term). but the NCAA has no incentive to use a metric that is not their own. unfortunately, it’s to the detriment of the sport.

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By: Cindy Luis https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/#comment-2579889 Wed, 03 Dec 2014 06:47:36 +0000 http://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=26393#comment-2579889 57. i do get defensive. and i thank you for all the information you have provided.

one question then: who came up with the formula?

I am not the only one who perceives a bias towards Power 5 conferences. have had discussions with many coaches and others involved in the sport who worked to get the coaches poll as now part of the formula.
You saw the BCS mentality creep in over a decade ago. Otherwise you wouldn’t have had the designation among committee members as “mid-major” representative. And you wouldn’t have seen the SEC suddenly be considered
a power volleyball conference. The Pac-8/10/12 has always been good. My issue is with a 10th place team that barely got to .500 and is 8-12 in conference with a ‘really bad’ loss to a Cal getting in.

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By: Maverick https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/#comment-2579879 Wed, 03 Dec 2014 05:20:15 +0000 http://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=26393#comment-2579879 56. Btw, I am on record on this blog for saying that RPI is a flawed calculation for determining team quality/strength/etc. etc., and that using it to populate the tournament is equally flawed. What I take issue with are posts that misconstrue how RPI works or describe some conspiracy against non-power conference teams–big money football can have a huge impact on non-revenue sports like volleyball, leading to better recruiting/teams/won-loss records and potentially higher RPIs. That being said Cindy, I do appreciate your maintaining this blog for the fans–it can be difficult at times but that does not mean I do not recognize your efforts.

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By: Maverick https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/#comment-2579877 Wed, 03 Dec 2014 04:40:59 +0000 http://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=26393#comment-2579877 53. If you did, you wouldn’t have made comment 46. Starting values are all zero. The formula is the formula, no human who is inputting values is biased. You are being defensive and argumentative, it’s very unbecoming. But that’s your choice.

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By: Cindy Luis https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/#comment-2579874 Wed, 03 Dec 2014 04:11:27 +0000 http://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=26393#comment-2579874 53. I know how the RPI works.
And, as I have continued to say, I don’t think it’s right the way it’s done.
It’s a flawed system.
If you want to argue that, fine.

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By: Cubicle1126 https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/#comment-2579861 Wed, 03 Dec 2014 03:00:02 +0000 http://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=26393#comment-2579861 AdmrVT — to echo what maverick said above … if riverside scheduled and won against a bunch of cupcakes and had a decent win/loss record before conference play starts, it will absolutely help hawaii’s RPI.

for instance, if riverside was 10-0 before conference play, and ended up with a 10-20 record at the end of the regular season … that is better than riverside starting out 0-10 against their non-conference opponents, and finishing with a 0-30 record by the end. (riverside’s actual line wasn’t that far off this season. they were 2-10 against their non-conference opponents, and finished the season winless in league play with a 2-26 overall record. and since hawaii played riverside twice, this got factored into hawaii’s RPI formula twice! brutal!)

take also the example i discussed above about the pac-12. even the bottom dwellers in the pac-12 (like cal and washington st) had great win/loss records before conference play started. cal and washington st were 8-2 and 9-3 respectively, against mostly weak teams, before pac-12 play began. they ended up being at the bottom of the pac-12 standings, but since they had accumulated some wins early on, it lessened the blow of their conference opponents having to play them, some twice in a season.

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By: Cubicle1126 https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/#comment-2579857 Wed, 03 Dec 2014 02:43:30 +0000 http://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=26393#comment-2579857 yup, i agree the NCAA won’t listen to complaints about the RPI. it’s their formula! they will refuse to be told that it’s not a reliable tool to field a championship tournament. lol

at the very least though, i hope i can add to the discussion on here about it. i don’t like the RPI. i’ve been very outspoken against it, like many fans and posters on here and on VT. but at the same time, i hope we don’t continue to perpetuate the myths surrounding it.

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By: Maverick https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/#comment-2579855 Wed, 03 Dec 2014 02:28:33 +0000 http://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=26393#comment-2579855 51. Not true because UH’s opponents’ winning pct is 50% of the RPI calc. My suggestion may depress the third component of UH’s RPI, but that component has half the weighting (25%) and is spread over ~27 times the number of win-loss records (assume all teams play 27 matches a year, to simplify). The value of Riverside winning a match over a cupcake far outweighs the impact of playing a cupcake with a poor W-L record. It is the mathematics of RPI and the best way of gaming the system.

I agree that ideally you want Big West opponents to schedule tough and win, but teams like Riverside are too weak to garner such wins. I’m only suggesting a near term approach, not a long-term solution for improving UH’s RPI. Better teams won’t do as I hope because they have an incentive to improve RPIs as much as possible, and for them, beating cupcakes is less valuable than beating great teams.

And I agree NCAA won’t listen to complaints, but focusing on a flawed calculation is even less productive.

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By: AdmrVT https://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/volleyshots/adolpho-magill-manu-olevao-taylor-earn-1st-team-bwc-honors/#comment-2579849 Wed, 03 Dec 2014 02:07:32 +0000 http://www.hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=26393#comment-2579849 #50. I don’t think the NCAA would listen to Cindy’s “frustrations” even if she tried. Having the Big West schedule “cupcakes” would only have a marginal effect on RPI & probably be detrimental. If Riverside wins all of it out of conference matches against “cupcakes” (against these teams have RPIs below 150), that won’t help.

With the conference teams having good recruiting results since Hawaii rejoined the conference, the conference would be better served by having teams schedule a bit tougher. But, they need to win these games.

I think Hawaii, LBS, Northridge, Cal Poly and UCSB can do this, and perhaps Irvine & UC Davis.

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